Cops looting bodies?

[Ambrus]

I'm running a Planescape campaign in which the players were just attacked by a group of thugs that they'd been investigating/pursuing. Most of the PCs are law abiding and one is even a Harmonium officer in Sigil (essentially, a sanctioned city guard). Now that they've defeated the thugs and shackled the two survivors, they intend to march them down to the PC's garrison outpost, lock them up and proceed to interrogate them.

That's all good and lawful so far right? Okay. So what might the city's civic code have to say about a suspect's possessions? In a normal D&D game, the PCs kill the bad guys and loot their stuff, but what should happen when the PCs are semi-official investigators arresting criminals? Should the arresting officer have the right to claim a share? If so, how much? What about her friends who assisted in the arrest?

Just wondering how other DMs might handle this and whether there's some kind of historical precedent for such situations. I'm not concerned with shortchanging the players; one way or another, they'll get all the equipment they need.

 

[DarkKestral]

Well, it's Sigil. And if it's not mentioned, it's your call, but given the general view of the Harmonium and the Fraternity of Order as well as the Mercykillers/ Sons of Mercy & Sodkillers, I'd say they'd probably allow it, but it would be wrapped up in red tape. Particularly the Harmonium and Sodkillers; the Harmonium would probably say it is "using the weapons of Evil against it" and the Sodkillers would probably just view it as doing what's necessary to mete out appropriate punishment. The FoO would likely be more concerned with the actual bookkeeping involved, and maybe require that the PCs fill out claim forms, and there might be an appeals process, if said thugs wish to attempt to get their weapons back via trial.

Given a conviction, (and I'm assuming conviction is likely) real world police agencies sometimes are allowed to keep possession of items used in a crime. If you decide Sigil has a similar law, then it would probably be pretty obviously legal, though only the officer or the officer's station would be able to qualify as the new owners. If the possession goes to the officer, it could be viewed that the wanted items become "gifts" to the other PCs.

 

[Kmart Kommando]

Make their gear scale with level and tell them "every body searched has 1d4cp on it, unless there is supposed to be something to help the plot, in which case I'll tell you when you find it"

My players (though it's Iron Heroes) are finally getting used to not rifling everyone's pockets.

 

[Herobizkit]

Let me preface everything by saying "I am not a police officer, nor make any claims that I understand the real-world justice system".

If you wanted to go modern-esque on them, any seized items become the property of the arresting institution. If it is suspected that any of the items were used in a criminal act, then they are seized as "evidence" and taken to a panel of experts (labs, CSI, whatever) to be examined. As for personal effects, they are safely stored until the prisoner is released, at which time the items are returned to the arrestee(?).

Now, if you watch shows like "The Shield" (which I love), these "dirty cops" plant/remove evidence, keep seized assets for themselves (drugs, money, weapons), and more often than not mete out their own brand of street justice. Sound more like your typical PC?

That being said, perhaps your justice system in Sigil COULD offer up a "reward" for seizing particular assets - maybe offer a cash bonus in the form of a percent value of the total amount seized, but only IF the criminal is convicted. Or, you could even go back to the old AD&D days and dole out a flat XP bonus/gp seized. OR, you could keep track of the total gp value of stuff they seize and, based on how well they're doing, permit them to "spend" the money by "buying" magic items/resources from their employers.

 

[roguerouge]

A viable alternative would be that those items not evidence would be available to be claimed by victims for 30 days, at which point those items would be sold at auction, perhaps to benefit those wounded in duty, widows, or the department itself. You could have the PC cops benefit from institutional advantages to compensate from lack of corpse-looting: income, access, privileges, free loans of equipment, etc.

 

[Lhorgrim]

Let me preface everything by saying "I am not a police officer, nor make any claims that I understand the real-world justice system".

If you wanted to go modern-esque on them, any seized items become the property of the arresting institution. If it is suspected that any of the items were used in a criminal act, then they are seized as "evidence" and taken to a panel of experts (labs, CSI, whatever) to be examined. As for personal effects, they are safely stored until the prisoner is released, at which time the items are returned to the arrestee(?).

I am a police officer in real life, and you are 100% correct on the proceedure. In my area the non-evidence items except weapons are usually held at the jail until the suspect is released on bond, or at the end of a sentence. Any weapons are held at the police station until a judge orders them returned or destroyed.

Saaayyyy...how do you know so much about getting arrested anyway?

 

[Ambrus]

So we know what the modern western police forces' official stance is on seized property. Any history buffs know what the old-school medieval civic constabulary's position was regarding the same? It'd be nice to hear a contrasting view from the real world.

 

[ThirdWizard]

When I played a Harmonium, generally we turned in all items found on anyone as evidence, but I was awarded pay based on my performance. So basically, the more powerful the NPC captured/killed, the more I'd make. Sort of a "equivalent exchange" metagame thing going on.

 

[Clueless]

A viable alternative would be that those items not evidence would be available to be claimed by victims for 30 days, at which point those items would be sold at auction, perhaps to benefit those wounded in duty, widows, or the department itself. You could have the PC cops benefit from institutional advantages to compensate from lack of corpse-looting: income, access, privileges, free loans of equipment, etc.

Very Harmonium-esque there. Alternatively they could be caimed by next-of-kin, all of those faction institutions believe in inheritance laws. More than likely if the PCs are being paid to investigate - they are also being paid well enough to not be so easily corruptible. Aka - their bonuses should compensate for not getting sticky-finger syndrome. The Harmonium ain't dumb berks, they know what adventuring parties are like and they have the budget for it.

Alternatively - you could let them walk off with the stuff (though that Harmonium player may start losing his faction powers over time) - and then let them get caught up in any investigations into cleaning up the corrupt officials. If you're playing pre-Faction War the Harmonium of Sigil does have a corruption problem that they need to address.

Re: historical comparatives - I would view it as closer to a renaissance society - so look to early Italian law perhaps? The Harmonium are really clear on procedure though - so... with that element already in the mix it may not even be necessary to do a historical comparison. Harmonium are extremists about such things.

And I just reread your OP and realized.. hey - you already know this stuff. Why am I babbling at you about it huh? You were asking about it as a standard policy for criminal investigatory style games, not just for yours. Well - my case? As above: The department or guard aren't stupid, and they'll pay well enough to avoid it. If it happens - hey, you have a plot hook.

You asked: So what might the city's civic code have to say about a suspect's possessions?

I would suggest that there's likely nothing in a standard city's civic code supporting such chaotic and ruffian style activity as the standard adventuring party approach when it comes to city guards. a) This robs the city/lord of the fiefdom of a possible source of income, and b) (in the hands of competent law makers) it leaves the guards in an uncomfortable conflict of interest that encourages excessive force.

In a more medieval scenario it still wouldn't be encouraged. Guards of the time are more military enforcers than serve'n'protect police forces. And 'loot' as it is, goes to the lord of the realm, who then divides it out properly. (Wow did that surprise the characters in a celtic game I was in, and they were even more surprised when I got to sit at the lord's table as an adviser for the year as a bonus for it.) I'm wondering when the first public interest armed force came into existence as a distinctive enforcing/investigatory service, as opposed to a military group - anyone know? That may make the concept of police null and void for any medieval context.

 

[trancejeremy]

Well, on the classic episode of "Married with Children", where the sky diving Santa Claus crash lands in the Bundy's lawn, as the cop is leaving, he gives Al a tip

"Don't die with your jewelry on!" and grins, flashing some rings that the dead Santa had been wearing.

And from personal experience, having been evicted once, the police (along with the "movers") stole quite a bit of stuff.

So it might not be lawful and good, but it's pretty common and apparently acceptable.