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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Plane Sailing" data-source="post: 1362961" data-attributes="member: 114">I'm not making my point clearly enough though... changing a class to incorporate tumble at the expense of something else is *entirely covered within the core rules*. Does everyone forget that *the core rules tell you that you can do this kind of thing*? It certainly seems as if everyone does!I don't buy the argument that "a fighter has to cause lots of damage all the time". If a fighter wants to use a rapier, that is a perfectly viable option. A swashbuckling fighter could end up finessing his rapier with greater weapon focus and greater weapon specialisation, power attacking for extra damage with his improved critical (or keen weapon). He could easily be wearing bracers of armour and a ring of deflection alongside his Dex to give him a high AC. Such a character might naturally want to take a duellist prestige class if such was available, but to say that any fighter isn't worth his salt unless he uses a two handed sword and wears plate armour is ludicrous (I know that is not what wizardru is saying, but taking his argument that a fighter is "supposed to dish out the damage" to its logical conclusion leads there.  A rapier is only 1pt less than a longsword on average, which used to be *the* typical fighter weapon (although you'd be hard pressed to find one in use nowadays I'd wager!)Cheers</blockquote>