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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Jack Simth" data-source="post: 4378495" data-attributes="member: 29252">I've got a copy of the 3.0 DMG and PHB - which doesn't have Natural Spell in the PHB, and neither the Dragonhide material nor the Wild property in the DMG.  The confusion is understandable.  Heal nets you a full 150 HP... but it also lets your opponent go unopposed that round.  A Quickened Cure Critical means you get some healing (4d8+20, average of 38), but have no need to stop fighting (as it's a Swift action, you can continue with a Full Attack).  Yeah.  Hence the Druid-20 being the poster child of Core 3.5 being unbalanced, as Runestar mentioned.A couple of things with doing that....1) It takes a standard action to loose a Dancing Weapon to fight.  Which means while you could potentially do that, you've got a round where your opponent isn't opposed if you do (unless your DM rules that a Dancing weapon gets a full attack on the round you set it loose).2) Dancing weapons only continue to dance for four rounds - so (unlike with an Animated Shield) you can't just activate it when you get up in the morning and forget about it.3) The Druid above is using a single magic item (valued at 67,300 gp - and a Dancing weapon is a +4 equivalent property; a +2 Dancing weapon costs 72,000, plus the base weapon.  As an exercise, figure out what the Druid can do to his combat ability with the rest of his 760,000 gp of character wealth he's supposed to have at that level.  Do remember: Bonuses such as those from a Tome or Manual continue between forms - so if he picks up a +5 Manual of Quickness of Action (+3 AC, as the Dire Tiger has an odd Dex score), a +5 Manual of Gainful Exercise (+3 Attack on each hit, +3 damage on the claws, +1 damage on the other attacks), as the Dire Tiger has an odd Strength score), a +4 Manual of Bodily Health (+40 hit points), and a +5 Tome of Understanding (simply because most Druids tend to maximize Wisdom), those boosts stay when he wildshapes - combine that with a Quickened Animal Attribute spell at the beginning of the battle, and, well... I'm sure you get the idea. 4) The Druid above is using the elite array - which is a 25 point-buy equivalent, spread out in a way that really isn't optimal at all.  In an actual point-buy, the Druid gets even worse - as there are really only two stats the Druid needs to buy after about 6th or 7th level (Wis and Con), as the Wild Shape provides the rest.Yes, the Druid I statted out is mighty... and he's also got non-optimal stats, and doesn't have all the bonuses he can legitimately have at that level from items, even sticking to pure core.  Yeah.  Core Druid is overpowered compared to most Core classes for around 75% of character levels (Wizard can potentially overtake the Druid after around 15th, give or take, in terms of character power).  Okay.The specific quote you replied to was "Please. Druid20 alone is the poster-boy for why the assumption that core = balanced is one of the biggest fallacies in 3e!" - if everything is balanced, a Wizard, a Druid, a Fighter, a Rogue, a Bard, and a Monk should have about the same amount of character power, give or take a reasonably small amount.  Saying the Druid is balanced because the Wizard, Cleric, and Sorcerer have a similar power level neglects the other seven PC character classes in the game (Barbarian, Bard, Rogue, Ranger, Fighter, Monk, Paladin) when you're looking at class balance.  Or, in other words, if the non-casters can't keep up with the Full Casters, in Core, actual class balance really isn't present.  Cape of the Monteback, Boots of Teleportation, or a Helm of Teleportation can provide a quick getaway for any class.  The Druid I listed is using long-duration buffs, that don't need to be cast during a battle.Between a Wizard and a Cleric, you can negate most of the need for a Rogue (Silence + Invisibility covers most scouting needs, Arcane Sight + an Unseen Servant dragging a bag of Rocks detects 99% of traps, wand of some direct-damage spell can be used to destroy 99% of traps once found; Knock takes care of locks).  The only other thing you need a rogue in the party for is the spot/listen checks and social skills (and the occasional antimagic zone) - and the Druid gets Spot, Listen, and Diplomacy as class skills.  With a party of a Wizard, Sorcerer, Druid, and Cleric, about the only things you're really missing (if you have some player creativity) is Sense Motive and a way to deal with large-scale antimagic zones - and even then, both Cleric and Druid are 75% fighter ... and the Druid's got the Animal Companion for a 60% Fighter.</blockquote>

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