Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Core Classes In My Setting
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Elder-Basilisk" data-source="post: 310273" data-attributes="member: 3146"><p>Spell damages: I don't think you'll be able to avoid a complete rewrite without eliminating damaging spells. From what I've seen (not that I've used it) Ken Hood's system works because magic is very very rare and thus the imbalances don't come up too much. The problem is that limiting the damage dice won't adequately account for most of the spells.</p><p></p><p>Summon Monster I-IX will cause problems because high damage monsters (dire wolves, dire bears, crocodiles, dire tigers, greater elementals, etc) are much much much much more deadly on a fixed hit point system. Heck, even the celestial/fiendish smite ability will cause instant kills often enough.</p><p></p><p>Spells like Ice storm will become much more powerful since their limited damage is not a factor when hit points are lower (and the damage limitation you proposed won't hurt them much--Ice storm would still do 4d6 damage--just a reduction of 3.5 points of average damage) and the lack of a save will be much more significant when they can potentially kill a character.</p><p></p><p>Similarly spells with damage as a secondary effect (phantasmal killer, slay living, destruction, disintegrate, etc) will be much more deadly than they're supposed to be unless that damage is toned down to well below the cap.</p><p></p><p>Normal weapons: I think you're underestimating the problem. According to your figures (which I don't think are quite right--Grug should have about a 3% chance to kill Bob in one hit because he will only confirm the crit 65% of the time) the chance of a raging Grug scoring a one hit kill is more than 4 times as high in your system. That in and of itself would add much more randomness to the system, making it quite likely that over the course of several sessions, every front line character would be killed at least once in the surprise round.</p><p></p><p>But that's not the primary issue. Looking at your figures, the average survival time is very similar at an 18 strength but rapidly deviates from the normal D&D model when strengths hit 22 (with rage). Consider that Grug in the example is not really min-maxed very much. Grug started with a 15 strength modified to 17 for being a half-orc and then modified to 18 at 4th level. Slap a Bull's strength spell on Grug and the one hit kill percentage will probably approach 50. Allow Grug to start out with a 19 or a 20 strength, and the rage figures are your starting point. Give Grug a sorceror level for true strike (actually, I guess in your system, Grug could spend skill points on this and wouldn't need to nerf his BAB or hit points) and the power attack feat and the one hit kill percentage will probably be 95% (although on the second round).</p><p></p><p>If you start buffing Grug in other ways, the same thing will happen. Give Grug a flaming weapon or worse still, a holy weapon (if Bob is evil) and all Grug has to do is hit. Stack a prayer spell and a bardsong and Grug is hitting much more often. It will be very difficult to keep Bob's armor class high enough that Grug will have difficulty hitting without giving Bob lots of magic items.</p><p></p><p>And, of course, if Grug wins initiative, Bob doesn't get his dex bonus. This will make it even easier for Grug to hit--especially if Grug charges. Using the rage example, Grug will have a 65% chance to hit Bob if he partial charges in a surprise round. And he need only do 2 points above average damage to drop Bob in a single hit. If Grug has great cleave, there's a reasonable chance that a raging Grug could drop the entire party in the surprise round. Now that won't usually happen, but even one out of every 20 encounters ending that way will be a very bad thing for a game.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Elder-Basilisk, post: 310273, member: 3146"] Spell damages: I don't think you'll be able to avoid a complete rewrite without eliminating damaging spells. From what I've seen (not that I've used it) Ken Hood's system works because magic is very very rare and thus the imbalances don't come up too much. The problem is that limiting the damage dice won't adequately account for most of the spells. Summon Monster I-IX will cause problems because high damage monsters (dire wolves, dire bears, crocodiles, dire tigers, greater elementals, etc) are much much much much more deadly on a fixed hit point system. Heck, even the celestial/fiendish smite ability will cause instant kills often enough. Spells like Ice storm will become much more powerful since their limited damage is not a factor when hit points are lower (and the damage limitation you proposed won't hurt them much--Ice storm would still do 4d6 damage--just a reduction of 3.5 points of average damage) and the lack of a save will be much more significant when they can potentially kill a character. Similarly spells with damage as a secondary effect (phantasmal killer, slay living, destruction, disintegrate, etc) will be much more deadly than they're supposed to be unless that damage is toned down to well below the cap. Normal weapons: I think you're underestimating the problem. According to your figures (which I don't think are quite right--Grug should have about a 3% chance to kill Bob in one hit because he will only confirm the crit 65% of the time) the chance of a raging Grug scoring a one hit kill is more than 4 times as high in your system. That in and of itself would add much more randomness to the system, making it quite likely that over the course of several sessions, every front line character would be killed at least once in the surprise round. But that's not the primary issue. Looking at your figures, the average survival time is very similar at an 18 strength but rapidly deviates from the normal D&D model when strengths hit 22 (with rage). Consider that Grug in the example is not really min-maxed very much. Grug started with a 15 strength modified to 17 for being a half-orc and then modified to 18 at 4th level. Slap a Bull's strength spell on Grug and the one hit kill percentage will probably approach 50. Allow Grug to start out with a 19 or a 20 strength, and the rage figures are your starting point. Give Grug a sorceror level for true strike (actually, I guess in your system, Grug could spend skill points on this and wouldn't need to nerf his BAB or hit points) and the power attack feat and the one hit kill percentage will probably be 95% (although on the second round). If you start buffing Grug in other ways, the same thing will happen. Give Grug a flaming weapon or worse still, a holy weapon (if Bob is evil) and all Grug has to do is hit. Stack a prayer spell and a bardsong and Grug is hitting much more often. It will be very difficult to keep Bob's armor class high enough that Grug will have difficulty hitting without giving Bob lots of magic items. And, of course, if Grug wins initiative, Bob doesn't get his dex bonus. This will make it even easier for Grug to hit--especially if Grug charges. Using the rage example, Grug will have a 65% chance to hit Bob if he partial charges in a surprise round. And he need only do 2 points above average damage to drop Bob in a single hit. If Grug has great cleave, there's a reasonable chance that a raging Grug could drop the entire party in the surprise round. Now that won't usually happen, but even one out of every 20 encounters ending that way will be a very bad thing for a game. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Core Classes In My Setting
Top