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<blockquote data-quote="shivamuffin" data-source="post: 769811" data-attributes="member: 936">In response to the previous post....There was no attitude in the response ( See the smiley at the bottom of the original post ), nor did I claim to be the only one that seeks changes in the ranger...In fact I've mentioned the other work, of other people here repeatedly.I've stated repeatedly that my opinion of the ranger is from the DM perspective and related to the particulars of a lower magic setting...I have not suggested a universal change of the class, just a modification for a lower magic setting. You people with the urge to start a flame, should go to WOTC and play with the other children.You sir, seem to have &quot; the Attitude &quot;, and need to drop it.Let me dictate the rules of this topic...Again, and I'll write it in simple words so YOU ( and YOU know who you are ) can understand it. This isn't the WOTC boards, and I don't want to attract the same crowd to my posts...It may scare away people who actually have ideas instead of opposing opinions. It doesn't have to be all serious, but I'd prefer not to have flame wars with gamer geeks over the issue...So far I'm pleased with some of the posts...People have been busy picking apart this aweful class, and I hope that my ideas about removing spell use has added a new element to the neverending quest to fix this unfixable class. Maybe by the time 4e is released, it will have been modified to fit in any setting.NOW on to&nbsp; the assassin...I made this for a lower magic setting...This is what I did to the Assassin, by making it a core class in my Near East setting...ASSASSINHit Die: d6.Requirements: Alignment: Any evil. Special: In addition, he must have killed someone for no other reason than to join the assassins. Class Skills: The assassin’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int, exclusive skill), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Int), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Forgery (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Innuendo (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Intuit Direction (Wis), Jump (Str), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Open Lock (Dex), Pick Pocket (Dex), Read Lips (Int, exclusive skill), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), Use Magic Device (Cha, exclusive skill), and Use Rope (Dex).Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Assassins are proficient with the crossbow (hand, light, or heavy), dagger (any type), dart, scimitar, sap, shortbow (nor_mal and composite), and short sword. Assassins are proficient with light armor but not with shields.Table: The Assassin&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Base&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Fort&nbsp; &nbsp; Ref&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; WillLevel&nbsp;&nbsp; Attack Bonus&nbsp;&nbsp; Save&nbsp; &nbsp; Save&nbsp; &nbsp; Save&nbsp; &nbsp; Special-----&nbsp;&nbsp; ------------&nbsp;&nbsp; ----&nbsp; &nbsp; ----&nbsp; &nbsp; ----&nbsp; &nbsp; -------1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +0&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +0&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +2&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +0&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Sneak attack +1d6, death attack, poison use2&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +0&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +3&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +0&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Uncanny dodge (Dex bonus to AC), +1 save vs. poison3&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +2&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +3&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Sneak attack +2d64&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +3&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +4&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +2 save vs. poison5&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +3&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +4&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Sneak attack +3d66&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +4&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +2&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +5&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +2&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +3 save vs. poison&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 7&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +5&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +2&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +5&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +2&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Sneak attack +4d68&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +6/+1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +2&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +6&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +2&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +4 save vs. poison9&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +6/+1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +3&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +6&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +3&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Sneak attack +5d610&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +7/+2&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +3&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +7&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +3&nbsp; &nbsp; Uncanny dodge (+1 against traps), &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Sneak attack +6d6,+5 save vs. poison 11&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +8/+3&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +3&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +7&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +3&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Special Ability12&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +9/+4&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +4&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +8&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +4&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 13&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +9/+4&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +4&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +8&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +4&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Sneak attack +7d6, special ability14&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +10/+5&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +4&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +9&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +4&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Uncanny dodge (+2 against traps)15&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +11/+6/+1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +5&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +9&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +5&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Sneak attack +8d6, Special ability16&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +12/+7/+2&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +5&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +10&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +5&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 17&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +12/+7/+2&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +5&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +10&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +5&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Uncanny dodge (+3 against traps), &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Sneak attack +9d618&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +13/+8/+3&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +6&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +11&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +6&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 19&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +14/+9/+4&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +6&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +11&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +6&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Sneak attack +10d6, special ability20&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +15/+10/+5&nbsp; &nbsp; +6&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +12&nbsp; &nbsp; +6&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Uncanny dodge (+4 against traps)Class FeaturesSneak Attack: Any time the assassin’s target would be denied her Dexterity bonus to AC (whether she actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), the assassin’s attack deals +1d6 points of damage. This extra damage increases by +1d6 points every other level (+2d6 at 3rd level, +3d6 at 5th level, and so on). Should the assassin score a critical hit with a sneak attack, this extra damage is not multiplied.It takes precision and penetration to hit a vital spot, so ranged attacks can only count as sneak attacks if the target is 30 feet away or less.With a sap or an unarmed strike, the assassin can make a sneak attack that deals subdual damage instead of normal damage. He cannot use a weapon that deals normal damage to deal subdual damage in a sneak attack, not even with the usual -4 penalty, because he must make optimal use of his weapon in order to execute the sneak attack.An assassin can only sneak attack living creatures with discernible anatomies-undead, constructs, oozes, plants, and incorporeal creatures lack vital areas to attack. Additionally, any creature immune to critical hits is similarly immune to sneak attacks. Also, the assassin must also be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach a vital spot. The assassin cannot sneak attack while striking at a creature with concealment or by striking the limbs of a creature whose vitals are beyond reach.If an assassin gets a sneak attack bonus from another source (such as rogue levels), the bonuses to damage stack.Death Attack: If the assassin studies his victim for 3 rounds and then makes a sneak attack with a melee weapon that successfully deals damage, the sneak attack has the additional effect of possibly either paralyzing or killing the target (assassin’s choice). While studying the victim, the assassin can undertake other actions so long as his attention stays focused on the target and the target does not detect the assassin or recognize the assassin as an enemy. If the victim of such an attack fails her Fortitude saving throw (DC 10 + the assassin’s class level + the assassin’s Intelligence modifier) against the kill effect, she dies. If the saving throw fails against the paralysis effect, the victim’s mind and body become enervated, rendering her completely helpless and unable to act for 1d6 rounds plus 1 round per level of the assassin. If the victim’s saving throw succeeds, the attack is just a normal sneak attack. Once the assassin has completed the 3 rounds of study, he must make the death attack within the next 3 rounds. If a death attack is attempted and fails (the victim makes her save) or if the assassin does not launch the attack within 3 rounds of completing the study, 3 new rounds of study are required before he can attempt another death attack.Poison Use: Assassins are trained in the use of poison and never risk accidentally poisoning themselves when applying poison to a blade.Saving Throw Bonus vs. Poison: Assassins train with poisons of all types and slowly grow more and more resistant to their effects. This is reflected by a natural saving throw bonus to all poisons gained at 2nd level that increases by +1 for every two levels the assassin gains (+1 at 2nd level, +2 at 4th level, +3 at 6th level, and so on. Until level 10.).Uncanny Dodge: At 2nd level and above, he retains his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) if caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. At 6th level , the assassin can no longer be flanked. Another rogue or assassin at least four levels higher can still flank. At 10th level, the assassin gains a +1 bonus to Reflex saves made to avoid traps and a +1 dodge bonus to AC against attacks by traps. At 14th level, these bonuses rise to +2. At 17th, they rise to +3, and at 20th they rise to +4. Special Abilities: On achieving 11th , 15th and 19th level , an assassin chooses a special ability from among the following: Crippling Strike: When the assassin damages an opponent with a sneak attack, the target also takes 1 point of Strength damage. Opportunist: Once per round, the assassin can make an attack of opportunity against an opponent who has just been struck for damage in melee by another character. This attack counts as the assassin's attacks of opportunity for that round. Even an&nbsp; assassin with the Combat Reflexes feat can't use the opportunist ability more than once per round. Slippery Mind: If an assassin with a slippery mind is affected by an enchantment and fails the saving throw, 1 round later the assassin can attempt the saving throw again. The assassin only gets this one extra chance to succeed. This is an extraordinary ability.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="shivamuffin, post: 769811, member: 936"] In response to the previous post.... There was no attitude in the response ( See the smiley at the bottom of the original post ), nor did I claim to be the only one that seeks changes in the ranger...In fact I've mentioned the other work, of other people here repeatedly. I've stated repeatedly that my opinion of the ranger is from the DM perspective and related to the particulars of a lower magic setting...I have not suggested a universal change of the class, just a modification for a lower magic setting. You people with the urge to start a flame, should go to WOTC and play with the other children. You sir, seem to have " the Attitude ", and need to drop it. Let me dictate the rules of this topic...Again, and I'll write it in simple words so YOU ( and YOU know who you are ) can understand it. This isn't the WOTC boards, and I don't want to attract the same crowd to my posts...It may scare away people who actually have ideas instead of opposing opinions. It doesn't have to be all serious, but I'd prefer not to have flame wars with gamer geeks over the issue... So far I'm pleased with some of the posts...People have been busy picking apart this aweful class, and I hope that my ideas about removing spell use has added a new element to the neverending quest to fix this unfixable class. Maybe by the time 4e is released, it will have been modified to fit in any setting. NOW on to the assassin...I made this for a lower magic setting... This is what I did to the Assassin, by making it a core class in my Near East setting... ASSASSIN Hit Die: d6. Requirements: Alignment: Any evil. Special: In addition, he must have killed someone for no other reason than to join the assassins. Class Skills: The assassin’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int, exclusive skill), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Int), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Forgery (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Innuendo (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Intuit Direction (Wis), Jump (Str), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Open Lock (Dex), Pick Pocket (Dex), Read Lips (Int, exclusive skill), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), Use Magic Device (Cha, exclusive skill), and Use Rope (Dex). Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Assassins are proficient with the crossbow (hand, light, or heavy), dagger (any type), dart, scimitar, sap, shortbow (nor_mal and composite), and short sword. Assassins are proficient with light armor but not with shields. Table: The Assassin Base Fort Ref Will Level Attack Bonus Save Save Save Special ----- ------------ ---- ---- ---- ------- 1 +0 +0 +2 +0 Sneak attack +1d6, death attack, poison use 2 +1 +0 +3 +0 Uncanny dodge (Dex bonus to AC), +1 save vs. poison 3 +2 +1 +3 +1 Sneak attack +2d6 4 +3 +1 +4 +1 +2 save vs. poison 5 +3 +1 +4 +1 Sneak attack +3d6 6 +4 +2 +5 +2 +3 save vs. poison 7 +5 +2 +5 +2 Sneak attack +4d6 8 +6/+1 +2 +6 +2 +4 save vs. poison 9 +6/+1 +3 +6 +3 Sneak attack +5d6 10 +7/+2 +3 +7 +3 Uncanny dodge (+1 against traps), Sneak attack +6d6,+5 save vs. poison 11 +8/+3 +3 +7 +3 Special Ability 12 +9/+4 +4 +8 +4 13 +9/+4 +4 +8 +4 Sneak attack +7d6, special ability 14 +10/+5 +4 +9 +4 Uncanny dodge (+2 against traps) 15 +11/+6/+1 +5 +9 +5 Sneak attack +8d6, Special ability 16 +12/+7/+2 +5 +10 +5 17 +12/+7/+2 +5 +10 +5 Uncanny dodge (+3 against traps), Sneak attack +9d6 18 +13/+8/+3 +6 +11 +6 19 +14/+9/+4 +6 +11 +6 Sneak attack +10d6, special ability 20 +15/+10/+5 +6 +12 +6 Uncanny dodge (+4 against traps) Class Features Sneak Attack: Any time the assassin’s target would be denied her Dexterity bonus to AC (whether she actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), the assassin’s attack deals +1d6 points of damage. This extra damage increases by +1d6 points every other level (+2d6 at 3rd level, +3d6 at 5th level, and so on). Should the assassin score a critical hit with a sneak attack, this extra damage is not multiplied. It takes precision and penetration to hit a vital spot, so ranged attacks can only count as sneak attacks if the target is 30 feet away or less. With a sap or an unarmed strike, the assassin can make a sneak attack that deals subdual damage instead of normal damage. He cannot use a weapon that deals normal damage to deal subdual damage in a sneak attack, not even with the usual -4 penalty, because he must make optimal use of his weapon in order to execute the sneak attack. An assassin can only sneak attack living creatures with discernible anatomies-undead, constructs, oozes, plants, and incorporeal creatures lack vital areas to attack. Additionally, any creature immune to critical hits is similarly immune to sneak attacks. Also, the assassin must also be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach a vital spot. The assassin cannot sneak attack while striking at a creature with concealment or by striking the limbs of a creature whose vitals are beyond reach. If an assassin gets a sneak attack bonus from another source (such as rogue levels), the bonuses to damage stack. Death Attack: If the assassin studies his victim for 3 rounds and then makes a sneak attack with a melee weapon that successfully deals damage, the sneak attack has the additional effect of possibly either paralyzing or killing the target (assassin’s choice). While studying the victim, the assassin can undertake other actions so long as his attention stays focused on the target and the target does not detect the assassin or recognize the assassin as an enemy. If the victim of such an attack fails her Fortitude saving throw (DC 10 + the assassin’s class level + the assassin’s Intelligence modifier) against the kill effect, she dies. If the saving throw fails against the paralysis effect, the victim’s mind and body become enervated, rendering her completely helpless and unable to act for 1d6 rounds plus 1 round per level of the assassin. If the victim’s saving throw succeeds, the attack is just a normal sneak attack. Once the assassin has completed the 3 rounds of study, he must make the death attack within the next 3 rounds. If a death attack is attempted and fails (the victim makes her save) or if the assassin does not launch the attack within 3 rounds of completing the study, 3 new rounds of study are required before he can attempt another death attack. Poison Use: Assassins are trained in the use of poison and never risk accidentally poisoning themselves when applying poison to a blade. Saving Throw Bonus vs. Poison: Assassins train with poisons of all types and slowly grow more and more resistant to their effects. This is reflected by a natural saving throw bonus to all poisons gained at 2nd level that increases by +1 for every two levels the assassin gains (+1 at 2nd level, +2 at 4th level, +3 at 6th level, and so on. Until level 10.). Uncanny Dodge: At 2nd level and above, he retains his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) if caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. At 6th level , the assassin can no longer be flanked. Another rogue or assassin at least four levels higher can still flank. At 10th level, the assassin gains a +1 bonus to Reflex saves made to avoid traps and a +1 dodge bonus to AC against attacks by traps. At 14th level, these bonuses rise to +2. At 17th, they rise to +3, and at 20th they rise to +4. Special Abilities: On achieving 11th , 15th and 19th level , an assassin chooses a special ability from among the following: Crippling Strike: When the assassin damages an opponent with a sneak attack, the target also takes 1 point of Strength damage. Opportunist: Once per round, the assassin can make an attack of opportunity against an opponent who has just been struck for damage in melee by another character. This attack counts as the assassin's attacks of opportunity for that round. Even an assassin with the Combat Reflexes feat can't use the opportunist ability more than once per round. Slippery Mind: If an assassin with a slippery mind is affected by an enchantment and fails the saving throw, 1 round later the assassin can attempt the saving throw again. The assassin only gets this one extra chance to succeed. This is an extraordinary ability. [/QUOTE]

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