Core mechanic changes?

[Mercurius]

I'm sure that this has been done to death, but humor me--it is difficult to search through all the rumors, podcasts, posts, and blogs!

From what I've read of 4e so far, it seems that most of the changes are having to do with secondary things--default setting and "tone" (darker), as well as secondary and optional rules. The thing I both liked and didn't like about 3e is that the core rules were relatively simple (good) but they were obfuscated by an immense amount of secondary (bad) and optional rules (ok). What I mean by "secondary rules" are stuff like Attacks of Opportunity--that you really don't have to use, but are still part of the core rules set. What I am hoping is that the core rules set is remaining relatively unchanged, but the secondary rules are being cleaned up--either changed, dumped, or relegated to optional.

So am I correct in that:

Primary rules (core mechanic and structure): little change
Secondary rules (core rules that aren't necessary to game play): lots of change
Optional rules (later rule books and options): to be determined
Default setting (game atmosphere, default races and pantheons): moderate+ change

So the question is: are there any, or many, changes to what I'm calling the primary rules? By this I mean the basic d20 mechanic, the structures of ability scores, race and class, saving throws, hit points, armor class, BAB, etc.

Thanks!

 

[Dragonblade]

The core mechanic of grab d20 and roll high to beat a DC is still the same. However, saves are now defenses so instead of players rolling to beat a spell DC, the caster rolls to beat their opponents Saving Throw Defense.

Although, this now makes the very term "Saving Throw" meaningless because you are no longer throwing dice to save yourself. But I suspect it will stay in use because its been used for so many years it would be awkward to start using a new term.

Other core mechanic changes are that classes now all share a unified progress for hps, BAB, and Saves. HPs and skills seem to work differently too, but we don't have a lot of info on that yet.

 

[Mercurius]

Thanks, that's helpful. I like the new "Saving Throw Defense"--I've never liked the D&D approach to magic, where you can either cast a spell or you can't...I guess this gives the closest thing to a caster "to hit" roll.

Any possibility that Hit Points actually become more realistic, as "body points"? That's another thing I haven't liked--which was only compounded with 3ed, where you could have a 20th level high CON dwarven fighter with 400 HP (or whatever), as much as a large dragon.

 

[Sitara]

Characters now get triple hitpoints at first level.
All characters can heal themselves.
Characters get unlimited use of powers, per encounter use pf powers, and per day use of powers.

 

[Stalker0]

Any possibility that Hit Points actually become more realistic, as "body points"? That's another thing I haven't liked--which was only compounded with 3ed, where you could have a 20th level high CON dwarven fighter with 400 HP (or whatever), as much as a large dragon.

Bottom line is, there is nothing realistic about a 20th level character.

Further, if you don't consider magic, a dwarf can have at most a 25 con at 20th level, which is literally THE toughest dwarf in history. With d12 hitdice, he has 283 hitpoints. An amazing amount still, but not 400. Once you enter magic into the equation, then you can't talk about reality anymore.

 

[Sitara]

Oh and you can now actually fight and kill dragons by 2nd level.
There are 30 total levels instead of 20.
Tieflings and Dragonborn are core races.
Gnomes and half-Orcs are no longer core races.
PRC's are gone. Replaced by paragon and epic 'paths'. These paths are not optional, everyone has to take them. (they are kind of like your destiny)

 

[Dragonblade]

Any possibility that Hit Points actually become more realistic, as "body points"? That's another thing I haven't liked--which was only compounded with 3ed, where you could have a 20th level high CON dwarven fighter with 400 HP (or whatever), as much as a large dragon.

The game still emphasizes cinematic over the top action so hitpoints will not be "realistic" in the sense you mean. There has been some threads started by people who prefer a grittier play style and are wondering how they might tweak the rules to achieve that effect.

I actually like the mythic feel of high level characters being able to perform superhuman feats and take on mighty monsters, so I haven't read a lot of those threads. But I'm sure someone somewhere will come up with gritty variant rules if thats what you like.

 

[Dragonblade]

Oh and you can now actually fight and kill dragons by 2nd level.

Perhaps a wyrmling. Great wyrms are still titanic foes that can take down an entire party of high level characters.

 

[Mephistopheles]

Bottom line is, there is nothing realistic about a 20th level character.

Further, if you don't consider magic, a dwarf can have at most a 25 con at 20th level, which is literally THE toughest dwarf in history. With d12 hitdice, he has 283 hitpoints. An amazing amount still, but not 400. Once you enter magic into the equation, then you can't talk about reality anymore.

Isn't it more like 20 x 12 + 20 * 7 = 240 + 140 = 380?

(I guess you're going by average dice rolls beyond 1st level, but the toughest dwarf wouldn't settle for averages!)

 

[Glyfair]

Characters now get triple hitpoints at first level.

As far as I know this hasn't been confirmed. We expect that PCs will have more hit points at first level. We know that Star Wars Saga was a "trial run" for parts of 4E, and they get 3x hit points at first level. However, we haven't been told that's exactly how it will work in 4E. They might have played with the mechanic since SWS.