Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Rocket your D&D 5E and Level Up: Advanced 5E games into space! Alpha Star Magazine Is Launching... Right Now!

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Jack Simth" data-source="post: 4434211" data-attributes="member: 29252">They do miss out (barring early-entry tricks or applying MT advancement to rapid-advancement PrC's such as the Ur-Priest).  The Cleric-3/Wizard-3/Mystic Theurge-9 is a 15th level character, casting 6th level spells - when the equivalent Cleric-15 or Wizard-15 would be casting 8th level spells.    At Mystic Theurge-10 (character level 16), the MT finally gets 7th level spells, while the pure caster is working on 8th level spells.  The Mystic Theurge is generally three class levels (1.5 spell levels) behind; four class levels (2 full spell levels) when using spontaneous base classes such as the Sorcerer or the Favored Soul.  They also miss out on Wizard Bonus feats, Clerical turning, familiar advancement, and so on (with exceptions for some of the later hybrid PrC's).  It's only when the Mystic Theurge hits 20th level that he FINALLY gets a 9th level spell slot - and that's only in one of the two classes (MT is only 10 levels).  Spontaneous caster base classes don't get 9th level spells with a Mystic Theurge until epic levels.Reduced spell access hurts (it really, really bites when the divine caster in the party doesn't have the ability to prepare the "day after" spell to fix the penalties from the ability-drain monsters you ran across the day before), and feats are fairly valuable because you get so few of them.  Also, it's mostly only the initial hybrid PrC's that were as vanilla as you're claiming here - the Arcane Hierophant (Druid/Arcanist), Fochlucan Lyrist (Druid/Rogue/Bard mix), Green Whisperer (Druid/Bard), Ultimate Magus (Wizard/Sorcerer), Abjurant Champion (melee/arcanist, although it's possible for a pure caster to eventually qualify), Arcane Trickster (Wizard/Rogue), and so on do gain actual class abilities that often involve mixing aspects of the two base classes.  ... except that we're not talking about your PC - we're talking about the PrC's that "ought" to be included in Core.  It's not a matter of "whose business is it if I wish to play a Wiz8/Clc8?" it's closer to a matter of "should the Mystic Theurge, and other dual-progression classes, be permitted?"It's HARD to build a fully split character (Wizard-8/Cleric-8, to use your listing) that can keep up with a pure-classed caster one or two levels lower in total ECL (e.g., a Cleric-14 or a Wizard-14).  Other than ones that use really cheesy tricks, I honestly do not think I've ever seen a build that could.  Can you make one?The Geomancer isn't really a hybrid PrC - it requires both arcane and divine spells, but it only advances one side of them on any given level.  Most of them do that sort of thing - they ARE behind on the pinnacle of power (generally by 1.5 spell levels), and other than the base hybrids in the DMG, most of them do get "mix" abilities to some degree or another.Or, to put it another way, as nearly as I can tell, most of your objections don't really apply at all, and the ones that do only apply to a relative handful of the hybrid PrC's.</blockquote>

Verification