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Message: <blockquote data-quote="iwatt" data-source="post: 3088621" data-attributes="member: 11085">You're using the same "elite" stats I'm guessing. Well, at level 1 the battle does devolve to whoever hits first. The rogue will have 2d6+1 from damage (assuming Improved feint). His higher skill modifier (+4 v/s +1) to gain the advantage against the warrior. I see you gave the warrior a WF. The Rogue will fight defensively (+2 AC -4 At). His AC will be 15 (he can wear padded armor I hope, or are we completely stacking the odd against him) and an attack modifier of -3. You're right, he's no the best melee charcetr at level 1. But he does have additional abilties (10 skills maxed out) v/s 3 for the warrior. I expect D'artagnan to llok for favorable terrain and then attack. You kno, on op of a table, tumbling around, that kind of stuff. But assume that he also is good at Intimidate so he could consistently make the Warrior shaken. Round 1: D: Standard Action Intimidate, Move Action Feint. Fight defensively (+2 AC)W: Attack at +2 (shaken) Round 2: D: Attack flatfooted (because of feint), move away (possibly through difficult terrain to avoid charge from Warrior and taking advantage of higher mobility). Probably can't be attacked by the warrior, unless you stack the odds and make him fight in a 00'x100' courtyard.I don't think it's that bad YMMV. You do have to get away from the stand-and-wack mode.At Level 3 the Rogue2 Fighter1 combo get's much better. Using CE he can raise his AC, and coupled with fighting defensivley and the tumble synergy he has an AC of 20, and an attack modifier of (let's give him Weapon Finesse) of +0 and a much better damage potential (2d6+1). He still has better skill modifiers, and probaly is pretty fun to play outside of combat as well. He'll be feinting consistently (+9 from Skill focus bluff v/s +3 SM for the warrior).His modifiers for the same combat techniques as before get much better (while intimadating and  feinting he has a +5 AC bonus from CE and FD+tumble). His atatck roll is much improved.Finally, this charcter is about alot more tha just hitting people. He has the skill points and class skills to be the face man, he's very mobile, and pretty cool IMO.You'd be wrong: Check my previous post:By the way, the point I'm making is one which the venerable Crothian, explained much better:Which is exactly the point I was making. I started this tangent discussion with the statement that you could build a character concept well enough even when limited to the Core books. I added the caveat that it probably wouldn't be the optimal way of doing it, but as long as you care more for the character himslef that for the mechanics, it really shouldn't be a problem.And by the way, from your strawman link, I don't see how my argment was one. It was you who posited the extreme example of  ADD-man (1 level in each core class) which somehow is a valid concept. Personally anybody who multiclasses that way deserves to be put down. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></blockquote>

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