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Message: <blockquote data-quote="eamon" data-source="post: 3643331" data-attributes="member: 51942">I think the grappling rules are unbelievably complex.  It's extremely confusing once natural attack and weapon attacks and special attacks and pins and multiple grapplers, special feats, moving the grapple, etc etc etc are all are combined - and all that complexity for something which hardly ever actually occurs.  Grappling might occur, sure, but all those weird corner cases hardly ever do, and I wish there was some easy, straightforward rule to follow instead of this mess.If a grapple does occur, and the grapple goes beyond the simple standard 2 grapplers doing nothing but bashing each other or trying to get free, I also frequently find myself in a situation which grows absurd and requires DM "common sense" overruling.  That's just annoying.Not that I have a better solution, mind you, but I sure as hell hate the current rules, just about as much as fixed save DC's.  The solution isn't opposed rolls (that's normally just pointless), but scaling the DC according to the situations complexity.  Tumble actual does change if you're trying to go full-speed, or going through an opponents square... diplomacy is much worse.  It's as easy to convince a gullible commoner that you're a friend as it is a great wyrm gold dragon... hmm... that's odd.</blockquote>