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<blockquote data-quote="CapnZapp" data-source="post: 4621869" data-attributes="member: 12731">The way fighters interact with the marked condition is a mess. The way how this is explained is a mess too.And this from a design perspective.If your buddy's mark does not work for you, why aren't your abilities named differently?Having most monsters' mark work one way, certain (soldiery) monsters mark work another does not help. Especially when - with the errata - the soldier's mark is still different from the fighter's. (Now I assume - and hope - the errata covers fighters but not monster soldiers, and thus frees the DM from having to keep track of which soldier marked which PC)Things would be immensely more clear if the rules had:1) Martial Challenge (Fighter's mark): The -2 thing plus the ability to whack (your own MC). No &quot;marked&quot; about this.2) Divine Challenge (Paladin's mark): The -2 thing plus the radiant damage (on your own DC). No &quot;marked&quot; about this.3) Generic mark: Just the basic -2 thing. Anything with a special ability to do stuff to marked targets gets to do this regardless of who did the marking. Just as for all other conditions.This way when a martial class (perhaps a new Warlord build, I don't know) gets a marked ability, he gets Martial Challenge. When a divine class (perhaps a new Cleric build, I don't know) gets it, she gets Divine Challenge.Much easier to learn. Much easier to remember. Compared to anything like this, the original rules = complete fail.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="CapnZapp, post: 4621869, member: 12731"] The way fighters interact with the marked condition is a mess. The way how this is explained is a mess too. And this from a design perspective. If your buddy's mark does not work for you, why aren't your abilities named differently? Having most monsters' mark work one way, certain (soldiery) monsters mark work another does [I]not[/I] help. Especially when - with the errata - the soldier's mark is [I]still different[/I] from the fighter's. (Now I assume - and hope - the errata covers fighters but not monster soldiers, and thus frees the DM from having to keep track of which soldier marked which PC) Things would be immensely more clear if the rules had: 1) Martial Challenge (Fighter's mark): The -2 thing plus the ability to whack (your own MC). No "marked" about this. 2) Divine Challenge (Paladin's mark): The -2 thing plus the radiant damage (on your own DC). No "marked" about this. 3) Generic mark: Just the basic -2 thing. Anything with a special ability to do stuff to marked targets gets to do this [B]regardless[/B] of who did the marking. [B]Just as for all other conditions[/B]. This way when a martial class (perhaps a new Warlord build, I don't know) gets a marked ability, he gets Martial Challenge. When a divine class (perhaps a new Cleric build, I don't know) gets it, she gets Divine Challenge. Much easier to learn. Much easier to remember. Compared to anything like this, the original rules = [B]complete fail[/B]. [/QUOTE]

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