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<blockquote data-quote="Merlin the Tuna" data-source="post: 5124755" data-attributes="member: 55638">How is it accurate to have my ability to do adventurous things be unrelated to the frequency with which I do adventurous things?&nbsp; Why should running across wet balance beams in the Temple of the Great Tide while dodging swipes from water archons provide me with less valuable experience than running across balance beams at Barry's Balance Beam Bonanza?&nbsp; (Doubly so since I am ostensibly earning experience points from the former and not from the latter. And, again, I likely spent a lot more time and energy adventuring than training, given the rules we've seen for training in the past.) Putting in training rules doesn't get rid of the *DING! NEW LEVEL!* effect, it just draws attention to it by changing what causes the *DING* to something that's a little bit more of a hassle to the players, and it's still not accurate because you still get sudden jumps in the PCs' abilities because you're going up a whole level all of the sudden.If you want to minimize the *DING* effect, you don't do it by changing the trigger, you do it by breaking down the levels into even smaller chunks than they already are -- after a couple of fights, you get the HP that you would have from being one level higher than you are, and after a few more you get the skill bonus you would have, etc.&nbsp; If you want to tie this in with training, what you really need to do is say &quot;You need to spend a month training with Mr. Miyagi in his dojo,&quot; then have ninjas attack the dojo one week later before they can finish training so that the party again finds themselves partway between levels.&nbsp; If you don't, then it just becomes a game of replacing the DM's saying &quot;You gain a level&quot; with &quot;You train for a month. You gain a level.&quot;Training rules as D&amp;D has historically used them don't really add much on their own, especially if they just become a way of saying &quot;You gain 100,000 gold!&nbsp; Except you really don't because you're going to spend 90,000 of it to level up, because seriously, it's not like you're going to retire.&quot;</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Merlin the Tuna, post: 5124755, member: 55638"] How is it accurate to have my ability to do adventurous things be unrelated to the frequency with which I do adventurous things? Why should running across wet balance beams in the Temple of the Great Tide while dodging swipes from water archons provide me with less valuable experience than running across balance beams at Barry's Balance Beam Bonanza? (Doubly so since I am ostensibly earning [I]experience points[/I] from the former and not from the latter. And, again, I likely spent a lot more time and energy adventuring than training, given the rules we've seen for training in the past.) Putting in training rules doesn't get rid of the *DING! NEW LEVEL!* effect, it just draws attention to it by changing what causes the *DING* to something that's a little bit more of a hassle to the players, and it's still not accurate because you still get sudden jumps in the PCs' abilities because you're going up a whole level all of the sudden. If you want to minimize the *DING* effect, you don't do it by changing the trigger, you do it by breaking down the levels into even smaller chunks than they already are -- after a couple of fights, you get the HP that you would have from being one level higher than you are, and after a few more you get the skill bonus you would have, etc. If you want to tie this in with training, what you really need to do is say "You need to spend a month training with Mr. Miyagi in his dojo," then have ninjas attack the dojo one week later before they can finish training so that the party again finds themselves partway between levels. If you don't, then it just becomes a game of replacing the DM's saying "You gain a level" with "You train for a month. You gain a level." Training rules as D&D has historically used them don't really add much on their own, especially if they just become a way of saying "You gain 100,000 gold! Except you really don't because you're going to spend 90,000 of it to level up, because seriously, it's not like you're going to retire." [/QUOTE]

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