Cost of Living in D&D

[Prophet2b]

Sometime in the not-so-distant future, I'm planning on running a campaign in which my players have decided they'd like to run a bounty hunter business. For the business to work, they're going to set up a store that fronts as a pawn shop, but (obviously) the real work is going on in the back.

Because they'll actually be owning the shop and having to pay for daily expenses, I'm wondering if there is any good way to handle all of the nitty-gritty details that are going to be involved?

Most specifically, I need to figure out:

* Taxes each month
* Cost of food each month
* Cost of owning a horse each month
* How much they might make off of the pawn shop each month
* How to handle a bank loan to cover the initial cost of all of this

I'd like it to be realistic without being overly complicated (always a challenge!). I have a few ideas, but I was hoping I might get some input from others more wise than I.

In figuring everything out straight out of the PHB and DMG, though, I am wondering how on earth any profession that doesn't make more than 5 sp/day could possibly survive. Things are expensive!

 

[Jack Simth]

Sometime in the not-so-distant future, I'm planning on running a campaign in which my players have decided they'd like to run a bounty hunter business. For the business to work, they're going to set up a store that fronts as a pawn shop, but (obviously) the real work is going on in the back.

Because they'll actually be owning the shop and having to pay for daily expenses, I'm wondering if there is any good way to handle all of the nitty-gritty details that are going to be involved?

Most specifically, I need to figure out:

* Taxes each month

Entirely campaign dependant - some places tax based on the "value" of the land, the number of rooms in the building (which was why Wardrobes became poplular for a while - closets counted as rooms....), a flat fee (business licesnse), or some combination.

* Cost of food each month

Number of people * the cost of a meal * days in a month; you can look at ingrediants, and have them Craft a meal each morning, for 1/3 cost, but a bit of time, based on, say, the cost of a meal at an inn.

* Cost of owning a horse each month

Feed is a copper/day/horse. It's listed in the equipment table in the PHB. 3 silvers a month per horse. If you have your own stables, of course; otherwise, you'll need to hire some, and that gets pricy.

* How much they might make off of the pawn shop each month

1/2 Proffession skill check result in gold pieces per week. Assuming 4 weeks/month, and no ranks in Proffession (Pawner), taking 10, that's 20+2*Wis modifier GP/Month.

* How to handle a bank loan to cover the initial cost of all of this

Very, very carefully. Much simpler just to have them clean out a building of something that invaded it, killing the original occupants, and assign some fee or other for trasferring the title. Or skip the loan, and let them rent the building...... a pawn shop doesn't have all that much in the way of expenses.

I'd like it to be realistic without being overly complicated (always a challenge!). I have a few ideas, but I was hoping I might get some input from others more wise than I.

In figuring everything out straight out of the PHB and DMG, though, I am wondering how on earth any profession that doesn't make more than 5 sp/day could possibly survive. Things are expensive!

You're a commoner-1, working as an untrained hireling. You have a mud hut somewhere. You're earning 1 sp/day. You can exactly afford to get a poor meal at an inn every day. You can craft a poor meal (taking 10 - shouldn't be all that hard, should it?) for three or four coppers. If you have somewhere to cook, you technically get 1 gp worth of meals in one day of cooking... provided they don't spoil (DC * check result in progress; measured in coppers on a daily basis, silvers on a weekly basis; 10*10=100 coppers = 1 gp per day). For one day of work, three silvers, three coppers gets you 10 days worth of "poor" meals. That's four days work. If you have a house of some kind, you can thus provide for yourself and another... barely. With a few coppers left over in every 10 day cycle. Unless there's tax.

 

[Prophet2b]

Huh... Okay, I didn't know you could craft food. I'd never thought of the craft skills in that way before. That's very interesting...

1/2 Proffession skill check result in gold pieces per week. Assuming 4 weeks/month, and no ranks in Proffession (Pawner), taking 10, that's 20+2*Wis modifier GP/Month.

Yeah, I was considering doing it that way, but since there are five of them, I was wondering how I'd handle that... I don't think all five would be making that much gold off of their Pawn shop. It's a pretty small shop. But I didn't know if having only one make the check and then dividing it between all of them (when they'll all be helping to run the shop on the side) would necessarily be fair, either.

Very, very carefully. Much simpler just to have them clean out a building of something that invaded it, killing the original occupants, and assign some fee or other for trasferring the title. Or skip the loan, and let them rent the building...... a pawn shop doesn't have all that much in the way of expenses.

So I take it loans are a bad idea in D&D?

You figured out things a lot cheaper than I did... I wonder where I went wrong... Gotta go back and check my math, now.

Thanks!

 

[Jack Simth]

Huh... Okay, I didn't know you could craft food. I'd never thought of the craft skills in that way before. That's very interesting...

How else do you explain the existence of food in the D&D world? Craft fits better than Profession, as you're making a product.

You still have to have the raw materials, of course, but those cost considerably less than the finished product.

Yeah, I was considering doing it that way, but since there are five of them, I was wondering how I'd handle that... I don't think all five would be making that much gold off of their Pawn shop. It's a pretty small shop. But I didn't know if having only one make the check and then dividing it between all of them (when they'll all be helping to run the shop on the side) would necessarily be fair, either.

Aid Another checks for a +2 bonus (translates to 4 gp/month/DC 10 check by the rest of the party)? Do remember, it's fine if all the pawn shop does is break even; its primary purpose is a plot hook - cover for bounty hunting, nifty place for the police to find stolen goods in the party's possession, wierd and wonderful (cursed) magic items sold by other adventurers......

So I take it loans are a bad idea in D&D?

Loans require little things like repayment and enforcement - which can get dicy vs. PC's. Either you're hunting the players to be mean, or the party finds new and interesting ways to commit fraud to break the wealth-by-level guidelines.

You figured out things a lot cheaper than I did... I wonder where I went wrong... Gotta go back and check my math, now.

Thanks!

Let me guess... you're looking at the cost of trail rations?

Oh, and I remembered the cost of feed wrong - it's 5 cp/day/horse; so for a 30 day month, that's 150 cp, or 15 silvers, or 1.5 gp. Unless you have to stable it because you don't have your own stable. My bad.

I'm also skipping some things in my analysis, because it depends more on the campaign than anything else. And I gave the commoner-1 untrained hireling a free hut to live in. That may or may not apply.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

I would go the route of D20 Modern and set an expense per week to maintain a certain level of respectablity. The Pawn shop would be run by Proffession; Merchant..and only one character can make a check, the others may be able to 'Aid Other', depending on how much they involve themselves.

For the bounty hunter part, its better to run it more like a contract for deed instead of a profession check.. this means they need Gather Info alot to keep an ear out for new jobs and need to maintain a reputation.
So, definately pick up some Rep rules for the characters, and get some guilds involved...the PC's might be stepping on a guilds toes somewheres...

 

[Pyrex]

Definately have one character make a Prof(Merchant) check each week with other characters rolling for Aid Another.

Furthermore, give them a circumstance penalty on the roll, say -1 for each day that week they don't check in on the store. This basically reflects paying someone else to mind the store while they're out working their side-business.

Depending on how cruel you want to be you can model taxes; loan fees, bribes to the local constabulary, etc as further circumstance penalties.

 

[Prophet2b]

For the bounty hunter part, its better to run it more like a contract for deed instead of a profession check..

Of course - that's the biggest part of the campaign. We're definitely not going to be rolling profession checks for bounty hunting!

So, definately pick up some Rep rules for the characters, and get some guilds involved...the PC's might be stepping on a guilds toes somewheres...

Right. I plan on using the Affiliations idea out of PHBII for most of that. I figure it ought to work well for this situation, and be easy to maintain.

Furthermore, give them a circumstance penalty on the roll

I hadn't thought of that that. Will have to be sure to implement something along those lines - good idea.

Is there any material out there that details economic systems for roleplaying? The DMG doesn't quite cover it to my liking, and I haven't found any other materials, yet. I know I may not necessarily use everything I impliment in the world, but better overprepared, especially since I have time right now to prepare.

I figure I ought to work out how trade between countries works, too.

The campaign I'm soon wrapping up currently is my first time ever DMing, and this next campaign will be in a totally different style. I haven't had to worry about trade, economics, a blackmarket, taxes, living expenses, etc. Any amount of materials dealing with those subjects would be awesome.

I've got the core books, PHBII, Complete Adventurer, and The Book of Roguish Luck for my primary sources right now.

Are there any others out there?

Or are there any tips on things I shouldn't worry myself about? I don't want to prepare something that I'll realize later I could have spent time better doing something else for the campaign.

Thanks for all the replies thus far! They've been very helpful...

 

[uffinf]

Did anybody mention using the DMGII, a whole section on running a business.

 

[Prophet2b]

Did anybody mention using the DMGII, a whole section on running a business.

I've been wondering for some time if I ought to get that one... Hmm. If that's the case, then it's more tempting than ever...

 

[Storyteller01]

Don't forget making arrangements with the local criminal elements. If they don't know your a bounty organization. they'll go to your pawn shop as a quick and easily accessible fence. They may come after you for protection. You might also look into 'if we leave you pickpockets alone, you give us info on...'. I'm sure they would appreciate the extra layer of comfort.