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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Arravis" data-source="post: 4129274" data-attributes="member: 327">A trend I'm seeing in some of the posts is something I've noticed over the years in D&D in general, and something I'm guilty of myself. In most campaigns, Illusions tend to be treated weakly. There's a reason very few people play illusionists, its always been one of D&D's red-headed step-children. If we treat an illusion as a simple a moving picture, we're doing them a great injustice. Too many DM's and Players dismiss the school of illusion, thinking it weak. It isn't weak, it’s simply the lack of imagination of the people using it and DM'ng it.Anyway, on to AkbearfootI'll have to disagree with you..."Air is not an tangible object in D&D."How do you figure? Winged creatures fly, creatures breathe, etc. The list of things that show evidence of air’s “tangibility” could go on forever. It plays as much of a role as it does in life. Keep in mind though, that the tangibility of air doesn't really enter into it. An illusion simply wars perceptions, not reality itself."How can you create an illusion of something that cannot be seen?"There's a lot more senses than sight. That is why the illusion spells specifically state, which senses are affected by an illusion and how they are affected. Weather it be pressure via touch and all the other available senses (as long as the spell affects those senses), or something as simple as smell... none of those things can be seen, but they are still clearly stated as being affected by a powerful illusion."There are spells that change the properties of air (i.e. temperature or wind speed) but that's not the same thing."I assume you mean illusions in specific, not just general spells. How is air pressure different than wind speed? And why would you assume it only affects some parts of a sense and not others? It either affects a sense or it does not. Unless specifically stated, illusions don't have the kind of simplistic limitations you're placing on them. Nothing in the description of the spell or of illusions in the magic section supports your theory."If that is the case, a person could use mirage arcana to make THEMSELVES appear to be air"No, that is not at all the case because the spell specifically states it does not work. From the SRD: "it can’t disguise, conceal, or add creatures""I would also cry foul at the notion that a PC would not somehow notice that they were moving slower than normal or that the weapons they are holding are still somehow impeded, or that their light sources would still be emiting reduced lighting or they still can't put their full weight on the ground or that they can't hear their armor clinking around like normal or any of their allies for that matter."How do you think you sense those things yourself? How do you know if you're moving slow or fast, how do you know if your full weight is on the ground, etc... It is all done through your senses. Something that the spell clearly handles."What if a PC happens to still have plenty of air in his lungs and exhales before breathing again, what about those bubbles are they invisible too?"The spell clearly affects the senses that allow you to see the bubbles, hear the bubbles, feel the bubbles, etc... Why would it not function? What's the point of casting a spell that changes the terrain... if you don't allow it to change the terrain? Where do you put a stop to it? If the players suddenly go from an arctic region to an illusion of a desert... does not the illusion make them think they're sweating? What's the point of the spell if it doesn't?"How do you adjudicate something like this?"Well, if it was clear to me as well... I would not be posting here, hehe."So you have to ask the player for a swim check if they continue to try and move.This is true only if you're free-floating or treading water on the surface (and even then I might roll the swim check in secret for the player), but if you're walking along the bottom or have any kind of firm footing (and at least 16 lbs of gear), no swim check is required. Movement is halved though. The "Aquatic Terrain" section of the SRD has this information."Good way to have your players walk out on you IMO."That depends on how the encounter is run at the time, to be honest. I try to run my monsters according to their abilities and my players know this. I'm never "out to get them", but a highly intelligent creature with many powerful abilities won't be underplayed in my campaign."Out of curiosity, what sort of adventuring group is at the level where they can potentially take out a aboleth and yet they don't have access to water breathing effects?"The group is an evil adventuring group composed of 3 drow, 1 kobold assassin, and a human vampire, all character level of 9.-Arravis</blockquote>

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