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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Jhaelen" data-source="post: 4129599" data-attributes="member: 46713">You're right. Well, sort of. There is a certain trend in D&D. However the trend is to get rid of open-ended spells and 'creative' uses of spells that cause the spells to be more powerful than other, clearly-defined spells of the same level.Mirage Arcana is on the same level as Cloudkill, for example, and it's one level higher than Phantasmal Killer. So you're right: It really should be able to do 'something' that is similarly effective.Maybe you could look at the 3rd level 'Crisis of Breath' power for an inspiration how to rule this one.I still have a problem with the proposed scenario and disagree that it will work as you think. To me, the problem is that it's not clearly defined, what the limitations of your tactile senses are. What is an illusion that is real to your sense of touch able to do?It is definitely not able to affect your sense of gravity. This has absolutely nothing to do with your sense of touch!A different example might make this clearer:Create an illusory bridge over a chasm with a glamer spell. What will this bridge do? We know it doesn't support any weight, since it cannot affect gravity in any way. The only thing it does is, it seems to offer resistance if you reach out with your hand or foot to touch it.Now what happens if a character tries to cross it?I'd compare the tactile effect of an illusion to a VR glove: If you 'grab' a virtual item, it seems to offer some resistance. The force feedback is sufficient to tell you the difference between touching or not touching it. But it will not keep you from closing your hand (but see below...). If the item was real, you'd crush it. Since you don't, it's now become obvious it is not real.Another example would be an illusory wall. It may seem real to your tentative touch but if someone pushes you 'against' it, you'll fall through. The force of inertia is unaffected by the glamer, so it breaks the illusion. However, if you were trying to, say, jump through the wall, and you didn't make your will save, then you might unintentionally jump short because your brain tells you, there's a wall. But it won't stop unvoluntary movements because this is not something that your brain can control.So, long story short: For me it is clear that a water-filled cave has too many elements that are different from an air-filled cave to fool anyone entering it unless the illusion spell used to convey it is of the shadow variety and thus partly real. I can see how a DM might rule differently, but that's the way I see it.</blockquote>

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