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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Flamestrike" data-source="post: 6818512" data-attributes="member: 6788736">Its actualy weaker than TWF. Its certainly not an' expolit'.Assume target AC of 16. Attack bonus of +5. Sneak attack +3d6. Cantrip damage +1d8. Rough maths:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Rogue with cantrip has a 50 percent chance to hit, dealing (1d8+dex) + (3d6) + (1d8) damage. 50 percent of around 35 damage = around 12.5 DPR</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Rogue with TWF has a 75 percent chance to hit dealing (ignoring off hand damage) (1d6+dex) + (3d6) damag or around 20 damage or around 15 DPR.</li> </ul>The TWF rogue comes out ahead in DPR.Assume target AC of 21. Attack bonus +11, Sneak attack +10d6. Cantrip damage +3d8.<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Rogue with cantrip = (50/4d8+5+10d6) around 30 DPR.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Rogue with TWF = (75/11d6+5) or around 33 DPR.</li> </ul>TWF rogue wins out again.For the cost of a bonus action to TWF (and saving yourself a feat in the process) your DPR with TWF on a rogue is equal or often better than it is with GFB or BB. The advantage of the cantrips on a rogue is not an increase in damage (it actually tends to go down); it lies in saving you the bonus action that TWF'ing costs you to use cunning action, or the extra damage dealt to a secondary target with GFB or the move + attack + cunning action withdraw extra damage with BB (which is situational).It aint broken, nor is it optimisation. Our swashbuckler looked at it and ignored it. He preferred to raise his Dex by +2 (for +1 to hit and damage and AC and initiative and his skils) instead. The increase in his to hit by +1 alone gave him a much bigger boost than the cantrip would have done (particularly with TWF). He can already TWF and disengage in the same round anyway.Seriously - look at the maths.</blockquote>

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