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Message: <blockquote data-quote="thedungeondelver" data-source="post: 3324564" data-attributes="member: 34865">It wouldn't do either job well, and the evidence is in your pitch: RPG gamers won't buy the game because they'll have to get the associated baggage (cards, tiles, miniatures) with it and with added cost.  If it's beefy enough to appeal to RPG'ers, then the cost for the base game will be exhorbitantly high: a gamer will have to buy a very, very expensive boardgame to get his core rules.  You've already set that up.Board-gamers will have to buy something that's very, very expensive that they don't want (the core 4.0 rules) along with their boardgame.Your solution is of course to make it rules light and despite the perjoratives you like to sling around about folks who play RPGs (few if any have I ever met who were the "elitists" or "snobs" you tar folks as being), rules light with heavy emphasis on boardgames, CCGs and CMGs are not what people want.If you were suggesting that people want an all-in-one (or -two) boxed set like the Cook/Moldvay BASIC D&D rulesets and throw in a few tchotchkes like some generic minis and dungeon tiles, that'd be one thing, but forcing RPGers to become board-gamers because...well I've been over your arguments and I still can't figure out why you're so hell-bent on the idea...won't work.  It. Won't. Work.  People posting in the thread have told you why, they've told you the only reason that matters why: because they won't buy it!  Your responses to folks who've said this time and again is "Well I don't see anyone offering any arguments as to why my idea won't work".  Dude, listen to me here:You have pitched this notion to a group of people and said "accept my idea".  This particular group, you have pitched it to.  Right here.  On this web-board.  The overwhelming majority of people have said in no uncertain terms that your idea turns them off.  We're the only market sample data you have thus far.  If you pointed at a poll in DRAGON or DUNGEON or TOY FAIR or WIZARDS or an "industry" publication and sais "Aha, but over eleventy-hojillion people interviewed here do think that the D&D BOARDGAME is a good idea!", I'd be inclined to STFU and leave it alone, myself.But that's not what you've done.  You keep insisting that the nearly 80% of people rejecting this idea in some fashion have wrong opinions.  Now remember, we're the ones you're pitching it to.  Doesn't it ... say something to you that the people you're trying to convince with winning arguments like "elitists" and "you can't come up with anything better" are turning their noses up at the idea?Let me frame this in another way: I don't like 3.5e.  I don't like 3e.  Hell, I don't like second edition AD&D and I'm not real crazy about UNEARTHED ARCANA and everything on the downslope after that.  I've wasted enough electrons to light New York City railing on about WotC but it doesn't change one fundamental fact: 90% of folks prefer things the way they are.  I can't change that.  But one thing I know for sure is that if eighty percent of people had responded to WotC's market research and said "What we really want is, quite frankly, a return to ADVANCED DUNGEONS & DRAGONS 1st edition.  As written.  And bring back the old cover art, too." then that's what WotC would have done.So here's where we're hitting the snag, I think, you and myself and everyone else...You're pitching an idea here that nobody likes.  It isn't something they'd enjoy.  It isn't something I'd enjoy - I tried 3e.  I tried 3.5.  I didn't sit in the corner flinging poo without ever giving the thing a chance.  But I'll tell you something straight up: D&D gets turned into a board game, like you're suggesting, I won't even touch the box on the shelf.And just so we're clear on something, I don't have a problem with you, I don't dislike you, I think you're really being sincere about this but you're just going in circles and at the end of the day you're not listening to the people you're taking the idea to in the first place and where's that gonna get you?Anyway I'm done with this one.  Best of luck though!</blockquote>

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