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Message: <blockquote data-quote="BryonD" data-source="post: 5639337" data-attributes="member: 957">At surface level I, of course, agree with this 100%.If you can trade me for a 12 year old who will be a life long gamer then it is a complete no-brainer.But, I think there is an underlying flaw in the presumptions.First, getting *new* players and increasing the portion of players are not remotely at cross-purposes and, to the contrary, are mostly aligned.  Yeah, us older folks might prefer elves where the kids like dragonkin or whatever the age cultural differences are.  But there is a hell of a lot more overlap in a Harry Potter inspiration and a Tolkein inspiration than their are major differences.But, second, and more importantly, 90% of RPG gamers are RPG gamers by nature.  At least, to a very reasonable extent there are people who are and people who are not and never will be RPG gamers.  If you were to jump into a point in time, say in the early 1980s once the D&D boom was fully established but still going, and then had a method of measuring, I'd bet the percentage of 12 years olds who became lifelong gamers has been fairly constant ever since.  Sure, there have no doubt been fluctuations.  And awareness that the hobby exists almost certainly has vastly more to do with that than the specifics of edition.  If you were 12 the year 2nd edition came out, there is a higher chance that the buzz caught your attention than if you were 12 four years later.   But that just means more 13 year olds found out the next year...  That trend cancels out.  But taking someone, 12, 21, or 50, who isn't somewhere in the "gamer" type and trying to make them into someone who starts being a regular on-going spender is a very tough task.  The number isn't zero, but it isn't a big part of the marketplace.  Bottom line, advertising that the hobby exists to kids is a great idea.  But it has a limited peak potential return.  But trying to custom craft a specific ruleset to appeal to kids, openly at the expense of existing older gamers will be a losing exchange.  Losing 10 adults and gaining 15 kids may sound great.  But if the alternative was losing 3 adults and gaining 13 kids, then you didn't do so well.  (and why not gain 2 adults and 15 kids....)The D20 boom was huge.  And it *probably* had a bit of a spike in growth in kids.  But, that wasn't really because it appealed to them better remotely so much as because the duldrums of late 2E/ TSR implosion had reduced the profile of the overall hobby and there was simply a rich field of potential gamers out there to harvest.  Love it or hate it, there is no questioning that 4E had plenty of buzz.  And I'm certain it has kept the 12 years fresh blood flowing.  It is still D&D and that is the recognized brand name for the hobby.  It is the entry game.  But the new 12 year old players start playing not because of the details of the system.  They are new players, they don't know anything about that by definition.  They are new players because they hear the basic idea of what RPGs are, and like the rest of us, it sounds cool to them.  They start with the obvious choice and it may be some time before the idea of different system even occurs to them.  And, ultimately, the breakdown in taste for what makes a good system will break along pretty much the same lines as people of any other age.  The kids will have more Harry Potter or dragonmen flavor to go with their system.  But they are still going to look for a system they like and then put their dragon men into that.When you design a system, design it for GAMERS.  Advertise to KIDS, design for GAMERS.</blockquote>

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