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<blockquote data-quote="Vyvyan Basterd" data-source="post: 5657129" data-attributes="member: 4892">I would guess that the one key element in my group's problem does not exist in yours. We have players of varying levels of skill at making powerful characters. If everyone in your group is roughly equal in that skill then you won't see the problem we saw.I still think this can be a systemic problem because the system breaks down unless certain parameters are met. And in a game where groups differ greatly across the board, that is a detriment. Just because your group falls under the right parameters does not mean the problem doesn't exist (which you've already agreed is true) and, IMO, doesn't necessarily mean the problem isn't systemic.Neither &quot;side&quot; can validate how much an issue with each system pulls in or pushes away players except at an anecdotal level. Plus, I think you're equating &quot;3E has systemic problems that led me to choose a different game&quot; with &quot;3E sucks.&quot; That's definitely not what I'm trying to say and I don't think the majority of people that discuss the problems they've encountered with a particular are saying &quot;that system sucks.&quot;One difference I think is occurring is systemic vs. taste/style issues. I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, that based on the opinions you've expressed on these boards you believe 4E is a solid system but it does not meet your tastes or your style. You have a taste/style issue.I enjoyed playing 3E for many years. The game fits my tastes and my playstyle. If I could have solved my issues with the system I might still be playing it. I do not have a taste/style issue with 3E. I have a systemic issue.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Vyvyan Basterd, post: 5657129, member: 4892"] I would guess that the one key element in my group's problem does not exist in yours. We have players of varying levels of skill at making powerful characters. If everyone in your group is roughly equal in that skill then you won't see the problem we saw. I still think this can be a systemic problem because the system breaks down unless certain parameters are met. And in a game where groups differ greatly across the board, that is a detriment. Just because your group falls under the right parameters does not mean the problem doesn't exist (which you've already agreed is true) and, IMO, doesn't necessarily mean the problem isn't systemic. Neither "side" can validate how much an issue with each system pulls in or pushes away players except at an anecdotal level. Plus, I think you're equating "3E has systemic problems that led me to choose a different game" with "3E sucks." That's definitely not what I'm trying to say and I don't think the majority of people that discuss the problems they've encountered with a particular are saying "that system sucks." One difference I think is occurring is systemic vs. taste/style issues. I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, that based on the opinions you've expressed on these boards you believe 4E is a solid system but it does not meet your tastes or your style. You have a taste/style issue. I enjoyed playing 3E for many years. The game fits my tastes and my playstyle. If I could have solved my issues with the system I might still be playing it. I do not have a taste/style issue with 3E. I have a systemic issue. [/QUOTE]

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