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<blockquote data-quote="BryonD" data-source="post: 5657139" data-attributes="member: 957">I Still disagree.I don't think player skill is important.&nbsp; I DO think DM skill is important, but much more importantly, I strongly think PLAYER commitment to the same type of play style is quite important.&nbsp; If the players WANT the story based game a decent DM can make it happen.&nbsp; I've got a guy in my group now who has been with us about 6 months, never having played 3E or PF before, and only moderate RPG experience with other systems.&nbsp; It is working great and his lack of skill with the system presernt zero barrier because his attitude is great.You are pushing this to the point that I practically have to declare the game immaculate to refute you.&nbsp; No game is perfect.&nbsp; It CAN happen in 3E.But, feeling VERY board-gamey CAN happen in 4E and unless certain parmaters are met it will.&nbsp; Therefore, by your standards, we have just proven that 4E is systemically very board-gamey.My group finds that meeting the parameters happens without even really making an effort.&nbsp; So I don't consider that an unreasonable expectation.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="BryonD, post: 5657139, member: 957"] I Still disagree. I don't think player skill is important. I DO think DM skill is important, but much more importantly, I strongly think PLAYER commitment to the same type of play style is quite important. If the players WANT the story based game a decent DM can make it happen. I've got a guy in my group now who has been with us about 6 months, never having played 3E or PF before, and only moderate RPG experience with other systems. It is working great and his lack of skill with the system presernt zero barrier because his attitude is great. You are pushing this to the point that I practically have to declare the game immaculate to refute you. No game is perfect. It CAN happen in 3E. But, feeling VERY board-gamey CAN happen in 4E and unless certain parmaters are met it will. Therefore, by your standards, we have just proven that 4E is systemically very board-gamey. My group finds that meeting the parameters happens without even really making an effort. So I don't consider that an unreasonable expectation. [/QUOTE]

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