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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Meeki" data-source="post: 3333999" data-attributes="member: 17257">Truthfully I think playing without divine magic makes D&D quite boring.  First it limits the diversity of characters that the PC's are able to play.  Second it basically forces every PC to make a "survivalist" character, unless they want to struggle and fall behind the rest or just waste time in the campaign natural healing (which can be pretty brutal depending on the DM).  Even if the campaign is combat lite they need to still have a way to survive in combat.   The fighter would probably have around 30 AC at level 5 (full plate, shield, 1 dex, combat expertise, dodge, ring of protection, etc) because getting hit is not something the party can deal with.  High con would be a must.  I know this may sound like a bit of min-maxing but without divine magic and healing I feel that the campaign would only promote it even more so.  Clerics allow PC's to make interesting characters with low hp and low ac, such as a bard/barbarian (which, btw, would provide the only form of arcane healing out of the PH).   Oh a party of all bards with a wand of arcane cure light wounds might work   <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f641.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":(" title="Frown    :("  data-smilie="3"data-shortname=":(" /> You do not have to take out divine magic in order to lessen the influence of your Gods.  If you want your PC's to be more clever in overcoming encounters then make your cleric stretch his healing ability over alot of combats or throw them up against creatures that do more than just hp damage.  Do not rely on the PC's to much to be creative in combat, its also up to the DM to create situations that are creative.   Also you could make clerics stick to a stricter doctrine of their religion or their god won't grant them spells or you can do away with Gods all together and have clerics draw their power from concepts of "good-evil" and "law-chaos" or something to that effect as described in the Players handbook.  Gods are not necessary.  I would recommend looking into dieties and demigods and look at their divine rank system for some ideas.</blockquote>

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