Counter Collection II

[Messageboard Golem]

This Counter Collection features more than 70 distinct personalities, all based on 3rd Edition races, classes and concepts. In addition, we have provided counters for a wide variety of monsters that can be used with any fantasy roleplaying game.

 

[Psion]

Counter Collection II

Counter Collection II is the second of Fiery Dragon's counter accessories providing the gamer with a variety of flat die-cut counters for use with the standard d20 System 5-foot grid.

The Package

The product is packaged as a staple-bound softcover book shrink-wrapped with a number of die-cut counter sheets. The counter sheets are, of course, the bulk of the supplement. The 8-page booklet packaged with them is just a bonus; it contains new prestige classes and magic items, in addition to commentary on the contents of the counter sheets. The whole package is priced at $14.95 US.

The Counters

The counters are color and fit on a standard grid map with one inch grids. The pictures on the counters are done by Claudio Pozas (the same artist who did the prior Counter Collection), with the exception of a few elemental counters that appear to be from Fiery Dragon's early days, when Todd Secord did most of the artwork. I always like Claudio's style; however, if you wish to do a sampling of Claudio's artwork, go to his website at:

http://www.d20reviews.com/pozas

The counters depict creatures from the d20 System rules. Though Claudio's take on the creatures is slightly different than that in the core rulebooks, this is probably partly out of legal necessity. Most of the creatures, though, are close enough that you can recognize them. The depictions are mostly side as opposed to top views of the creatures.

I have used counters from Counter Collection I for some time and have just started using some from the new collection. I sort the counters using snack-size zipper bags, with a note of what the counters are written on the bag in permanent ink. We generally use miniatures for PCs, but use counters for many NPCs, monsters, and mounts. In general, I find them much more convenient to work with than miniatures, and definitely more portable.

I do have some stand-up counters from an old D&D box set, but generally I prefer the flat counters. It's easier to organize and deploy the flat counters, and the stand-up counters tend to tip over with a slight breeze.

Contrasted to FDP's Counter Collection I, this one has four major distinctions. First, the creature set is different, so it isn't redundant with first Counter Collection. The first one had many more basic creatures that came in larger hordes, such as orcs, goblins, hobgoblins, gnolls, skeletons, and zombies. This one has more higher level creatures encountered in smaller groups.

Second, the die cutting seems to be much better in Counter Collection II. Counter Collection I had a few horses that you needed to cut apart yourself due to the fact that they had to use the same die to cut all of the counter sheets. Counter Collection II seems to exhibit better planning of the sheets. The only creatures you will need to cut are the tiny animals/familiars, each of which takes up one quarter of the 1-inch counters.

Third, this collection has a variety of unique characters. Counter Collection I had only 1 picture for each gender of each race and for the four class-types for humans. Counter Collection II has 75 different characters of a variety of classes and races, including 37 different humans, 14 different elves, 8 different dwarves, 4 different gnomes, 4 different half elves, and 4 different half-orcs.

Finally, Counter Collection II has counters for both Large (1" x 2") and Huge (2" x 4") sized dragons. Counter Collection I only had counters for huge dragons, which were pretty much suitable just for high-level parties, limiting their usefulness. Counter Collection II has both sizes of counters for dragons that did not appear in the first one, as well as providing the missing Large counters for the dragons that did appear in Counter Collection I.

In addition to the 75 character counter, the counter collection includes counters for the following monsters:

Ankheg, Ape, Aranea, Badger, Basilisk, Blink Dog, Bulette, Carrion Crawler, Cat, Centaur, Chimera, Couatl, Cockatrice, Demons (Balor, Marilith, Succubus, and Vrock), Devils (Lemure and Osyluth), Displacer Beast, Dog, Dragons (Black, Brass, Bronze, Copper, Gold, Green, Red, Silver, and White), Dragonne, Dryad, Eagle, Elementals (all, medium sized), Ettin, Genie (Djinn and Efreet), Giants (Cloud, Fire, Frost, Hill, Stone, and Storm), Griffon, Hags (Annis, Green, and Night), Hippogrif, Kuo-Toa, Manticore, Naga (Dark), Nightmare, Nymph, Ooze (Gelatinous Cube, Grey Ooze), Pegasus, Rakshasa, Rat, Raven, Roper, Rust Monster, Slaad (Blue, Death, Grey, Green, Red), Snake, Sphinx, Sprite (Pixie), Treant, Troglodyte, Unicorn, Weasel, Wolf, Wolverine, Worg, Wyvern, and Yuan-Ti (halfblood and an unidentified other type).

There is one manner in which the first Counter Collection was better. Counter Collection I's back cover had a guide to which counter was which. Perhaps this was unavoibable, since this collection had a much greater variety of counters, but it does leave you guessing a little.

The Booklet

There is a small (8-page) booklet that accompanies the counter sheets. The first Counter Collection's booklet contained an unusual NPC villain and an encounter with his followers. Counter Collection II takes a different route. It features new mechanical items for use in the game, including three prestige classes and a selection of legendary magical swords.

Of these three prestige classes, the first two are designed by Ryan Nock, perhaps best known for his contributions to ENWorld's Asgard e-zine, and Wild Spellcraft, the PDF supplement published by Natural Twenty Press, the electronic publishing arm of ENWorld. His contributions are the Brotherhood of Form Idealist and the Red Smile Assassin: Death Jester. As with many of his creations, they are both distinctive and well written.

The Brotherhood of Form Idealist are members of a contemplative order concerned with the discovery and realization of a number of ideal forms. Their class abilities relate to crafts and engineering, allowing them to repair or damage objects or structures, including constructs. The class appears to be inspired by the order of monks depicted in Fiery Dragon's adventure The Ghost Machine (one half of the double adventure To Stand On Hallowed Ground).

The Death Jester is an unusual class, one that relies on combining humor and assassination. Death Jesters have performance type abilities (much like a bard) that assist them in plying their ghastly trade.

Claudio Pozas, the artist responsible for most of the artwork, contributes the third prestige class: the Gnome Combat Miner. The Gnome Combat Miner is a good fighter, specialized in fighting in a subterranean environment.

The new magic swords introduced include the slicing special ability (very effective against objects), golem killer (a specific sword with the slicing and bane of constructs abilities), the demon sword, the dagger of truth, and despair. The last is a very powerful artifact that I imagine most GMs will be loath to put in their games: it radiates a field of despair that allows no save.

While I felt like this was an interesting and well done selection of items (with the exception of despair, which I would never use except as a ringer), I think that Fiery Dragon would have been much better off making material that has better synergy with the counters. For example, I would have found it more functional if they had included some sample battlefield maps, rules for sample battlefields including DCs and other rules regarding unusual features on them, or interesting monster characters of the types depicted on the counters.

Conclusion

I find the counters in Counter Collection II an interesting and useful method of representing creatures and characters in d20 System games. The artwork is great, and the counters are much more practical in terms of price, usability, and portability than the alternatives.

-Alan D. Kohler

 

[omedon]

Counter Collection II

Counter Collection II is Fiery Dragon Productions second foray into the world of cardboard counters, and it is a resounding success. With the advent of a solid grid based combat system in 3E the need to accurately represent the various D&D monsters and your characters is greater than ever. If you don’t have the money or patience for miniatures, but are tired of forgetting if the D12 attacking your characters is supposed to be the goblin or the orc, these counters should be right up your alley. The art for the counters is done by the talented Claudio Pozas, EN World's very own. If you would like to see a sample of his work you can have a peek at his site.

What do you get for your $14.95? 8-pages of die-cut counters. 416 in all, 75 of which are unique character counters perfect for PC’s or NPC’s. The remaining counters are made up of over 75 distinct creatures and monsters. For a list of all the counters found in CC2 look in the Fiery Dragon Products section on this site. The price per counter comes out to roughly 4 cents, a very good value. An 8-page booklet detailing 3 Prestige Classes and 4 new magical swords is also included as an added bonus.

Counter Collection II has a greater focus on higher CR creatures than the first incarnation. It sports a number of demons, devils, dragons, hags, golems, and giants. Where in the first Counter Collection you would often find 15 or 20 of one kind of creature CC 2 rarely sports more than 5. This is not a problem however, because with these higher powered creatures you won’t likely need very many of each in any one encounter. It also means that you get a larger variety of counters and more artwork.

Some interesting changes have made their way in this time around. Dragons now come in both Large (1x2) and Huge (2x4) sizes including Large sized copies of the Dragons which appeared in CC1, Tiny (1/4x1/4) sized animals such as rats, owls, and ravens have made an appearance, and there is a large emphasis on unique NPC’s. While the PC races and classes represented in CC1 were all carbon copies of one another you will find no duplicates in CC2 each NPC counter is a completely unique drawing.

The Good:
75 unique character counters 37 of which are human. The rest of the 75 are made up of 14 elves, 8 dwarves, and 4 gnomes, half-elves, halflings, and half-orcs. These were the deciding factor in my decision to buy this collection, and I am very glad I did. I am not a big fan of all of Claudio’s artwork but he does seem to excel at drawing characters. All of these counters look great, my players should be able to pick out a relatively good likeness to match their character concept, or perhaps even inspire one. All the character counters my players don't use will also make handy NPC’s.

I wasn’t in fact disappointed with any of the art; it varied from good to great. The artwork in CC2 seems more refined, overall an improvement over CC1. I felt that Claudio did a particularly good job with the dragons; they looked fantastic. The elementals threw me off at first; I would have preferred it if the same style as the other counters was used, but they have grown on me. They have an otherworldly sort of look that makes them stand out so you don’t confuse them with a typical creature. Which is good in my opinion, it should make them easy to find on the combat grid. The look of the elementals resembles the style used in the 2E MM rather than the new style 3e depictions. I will have no problem using them in my game.

The Bad:
Too many dragons. While they are wonderful drawings and will look very imposing when used in a climatic encounter there are just too darned many to justify their place in the collection in place of more common enemies. There are two huge dragons of each type. I am sure that there are many certified rat bastard DM’s out there that are just ogling at the chance to send a whole dragon family after his PC’s but I am not one of them. I feel that one huge dragon should have been used to represent each type (Bronze, Copper, Blue, Green, Silver) rather than two, making way for a greater variety of smaller counters that are more likely to find their way into the average D&D game. If there was one huge sized counter of each rather than 2 that would be 40 more medium sized counters that could have been in the set.

Also a couple of monsters were under represented in my opinion. Namely the Troglodytes, Kuo-Toa, and Yuan-ti. Particularly the Troglodytes, and Kuo-Toa, which are CR 1 and CR 2 races respectively. In CC1 low CR races such as these were found in abundance (10-20 of each) making it unneccessary to purchase multiple copies of the collection unless your were planning to run very large battles, while in CC2 only 5 counters of each of these races are included. It does not make sense that they would appear here with such low numbers especially since both of these monsters are from tribal societies and are often found in large groups. While having small CR creatures, that make up the bulk of CC2’s counters, appear in small groups is fine it doesn’t fit for these two races. Either higher CR creatures should have been in these monsters place or they should have had more counters in this one (perhaps in the steed of a few huge dragons). Hopefully FDP will remedy this in the upcoming Counter Collection 3 by providing us with more counters for both of these races.

Conclusion:
Counter Collection II is a great alternative to miniatures in terms of portability, variety, convenience, and price. While it is not as good as it could be it’s flaws are relatively minor merely preventing it from being outstanding, in fact if you have the means I highly recommend picking one up. It is so choice.

CC2 is very solid and useful product, a great value for your gaming dollar.

I give it a very strong 4

 

[Clint]

Counter Collection II is a collection of cardstock counters similar to the type found in Fiery Dragon's modules and their Counter Collection I.

Physical Description / Criteria for Review:
The package contains many sheets of 450 full-color cardboard counters for use in tactical situations. Also included is an eight-page insert containing three prestige classes and four new magic items. I paid cover price, $15.
I've been using Fiery Dragon counters in my game for months.

To love:
* The quality of the full-color art is excellent.
* The selection of counters is amazing. There are more than 70 distinct characters: 37 unique humans, 14 elves, 8 dwarves, 4 each of gnomes, half-elves, halflings, and half-orcs. They are split equally between male and female, which is a nice touch.
* There are also 80 different creatures represented, with a good mix of creatures from low-level to high-level: from trogdolytes to storm giants, dogs to demons and devils. Combine this set with Counter Collection I (which was skewed toward low-level creatures), and you've got virtually everything you need to run most 3e combats.
* Just like the first set, the counters conform to 3e scale nicely.
* Fiery Dragon addressed the fans' primary concern about the first Counter Collection: that there were only the largest dragon sizes included. This has been fixed in this collection; there are many sizes for each dragon type included. In addition, the smaller sizes of the types from the first set missing from the first set are also in this collection. While this isn't a "huge product feature", it wins marks for showing that they work to give the fans what they want.

To like:
* The sheets are nicely perforated to assist in counter separation. I still use scissors to separate them, however.

To note:
* Neither the prestige classes nor the magic items that made up the eight-page insert were particularly inspired, and weren't essential to the product. I've almost forgotten that they were included. This didn't hurt my overall enjoyment of the product, though.

Conclusion:
If you are looking for a low-cost way to visually represent d20 fantasy combat, this attractive and useful counter collection yields an excellent return on investment. Other supplements such as campaign sourcebooks and adventures might be used in my campaign, while these Counter Collections see game time every single week.

 

[RangerWickett]

What about the booklet that came with it? No comments about that?

And yeah, Claudio is getting better. I need to get hired to draw, since it would certainly improve my skills.

 

[omedon]

I did feel bad about leaving out comments on the booklet that you Claudio, and James put together. In fact I held off posting a review of CC2 because I hadn't yet given the booklet a proper examination. However upon further reflection I decided it wasn't essential to the decision of whether or not to buy the product, it is a Counter Collection after all. I think my review stands on its own even without detailing the Prestige Classes and magic swords.

Also, I did mention that the booklet existed and was included as an added bonus. I felt that this was enough. I can't imagine someone buying the Collection for the solely for the booklet. I felt that Psion's review did a good job of describing the contents of the booklet, and that anyone interested in it could decide based on that. If I get time in the next few weeks, as I am currently busy with school, I will take a good look at the prestige classes and magic swords and post my thoughts on them.

I do sympathize with you however; I know how important it is to receive feedback on ones work.

Which reminds me. What did you think of my first review?

 

[Gundark]

Well I gave the first collection only 3 out of 5 stars. Counter Collection 2 is a much better attempt. THE GOOD: Not only do they have many many more counters and differnt varieties (they fixed my earlier Dragon gripe from the first set). The artwork is by the same artist and overall is very good. I like how they have a selection of PC/NPC counters that the players or the DM can use. What also I like about this product is that they have counters for familiars. This is something that I thought was inventive. THE BAD: What I don't like about the product. Well there is no adventure this time. The adventure in the first set was hokey but it could be fleshed out to be something quite good. Instead they give you a couple presitge classes and a few magical items that I will probably never use in my games. Also again there is the complaint of the over represented/under represented counters. Not so much with the creatures, but with the PC/NPC counters I don't know about other campaigns but we don't use that many elves, and this set has a bunch of them, where as there are very few halfling and gnome counters (maybe not popular but more choice would have been nice). THE UGLY: The first counter collection had a guide on the back as to what was what. This one makes you guess. Now while the monster art is good, sometimes it deviates from what is presented in the monster manual so your left to guess what the hell a certain token is. They do tell you what counters are there, they just don't put the names to the faces. Real annoying...I spent some time guessing. THE DIAGNOSIS: If you use counters then buy the product, you'll be glad you did. If your wierd and don't want the product for the counters but the RPG materal inside......well I hope you don't get a chance to breed and reproduce

Gundark

 

[drnuncheon]

Let me start with this: The Counter Collections are perhaps the most-used d20 products I've bought, outside of the core books.

I love to have a visual representation of an encounter: it helps keep DM and players on the same page while giving a bit of help to the imagination. Unfortunately, I don't have the time or patience to paint miniatures (or the artistic ability to make them look good), and I'd rather spend my money on books. For a long time, my group used spare dice as miniatures, but there's something kind of lacking there in the style department (not to mention the questions like 'is that d6 a skeleton or a zombie?'). Counter Collection II turned out to be just what we needed.

With art by Claudio Pozas (http://www.d20reviews.com/pozas/), CCII offers something more than its predecessor or its competitors: personality. The real draw for me was the huge assortment of unique counters featuring the standard races and classes in combinations both common and unusual. This made it far more valuable than CCI for handling unique NPCs - and since I run an urban campaign, I've got a lot of use for those. The full list of counters can be found here:
http://www.enworld.org/messageboards/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3833

Mr. Pozas' art has very clean lines and bright colors, making the counters very distinctive and distinguishable - especially for such small pieces of artwork. His artwork displays strong roots in comic books, which is perfect for art this size - art that tried to be too detailed and realistic would end up muddled and indistinguishable. Most of the humanoid counters are head and shoulders shots, or from the waist up, while monsters vary depending on the type. The only artwork I did not are for were the few (very few) computer-generated pieces (the elementals & gelatinous cube) - when mixed in with Pozas' line drawings, they looked somewhat out of place.

The counters are printed on heavy perforated cardboard, and are pre-cut. If you are familiar with the counters from Fiery Dragon's adventures, these ones are thicker and more durable - and don't require you to be able to cut a straight line.

The collection also contans a booklet with 8 pages of miscellanous tidbits from Fiery Dragon's house world of Karathis: a small assortment of prestige classes and magic items, including a new quality (slicing) for weapons that lets them overcome Hardness more easily. The game information seems reasonably well balanced, but is not connected to the meat of the product in any way.

In summary, Counter Collection II provides an excellent value for your money. If you use a tactical map at all, they are well worth picking up. (And if you don't, I highly recommend that you give it a try.)

 

[billd91]

I gave the other Counter Collection product a 5 rating and this one is, pretty much, even better. The selection of counters to use is broader and there are substantial number of unique counters, excellent for using as PCs and unique NPCs. There are a couple monster types present in numbers that I find a bit odd but that ends up being a pretty minor consideration. It just means I have a few extra hell hounds in the tupperware container I use to tote the chits around in.