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<blockquote data-quote="Maxperson" data-source="post: 8417583" data-attributes="member: 23751">Maybe you avoid putting spellcasters in your game, but in every game I've ever run or played in, they were commonly encountered. Your personal game doesn't make them insignificant.If by &quot;don't even usually have spellcasting&quot; you mean all of them do, then you would be correct!!Here's the list of Demon lords from Mordenkainen's1. Baphomet - Has innate spellcasting2. Demogorgon - Has innate spellcasting3. Fraz-Urb'Luu - Has innate spellcasting4. Graz'zt - Has innate spellcasting5. Juiblex - Has innate spellcasting6. Orcus?&nbsp; You guessed it!&nbsp; Has innate spellcasting.7. Yeenoghu - Innate spellcasting!8. Zuggtmoy - Has innate spellcasting.That's all of demon lords.&nbsp; Note that they are not usually encountered alone and many of the lesser and greater demons also have......................innate spellcasting!Now for the Archdevils1. Bael - Innate spellcasting2. Geryon - Innate spellcasting3. Hutijin - Without looking I guessed he would have innate spellcasting.&nbsp; I was right.4. Moloch - Innate spellcasting5. Titivilus - Innate spellcasting6. Zariel - Innate spellcastingThat's 100% of the Archdevils/Dukes of Hell as well.&nbsp; I'm beginning to think that you didn't look before you claimed that they, &quot;don't even usually have spellcasting.&quot;&nbsp; You did remember that I said Demon Lords and Archdevils, right?&nbsp; This wasn't another example of you trying to twist things away from what I said, was it?That was not said.&nbsp; It was just said that the big spells would be abilities, not that all of them were damaging spells.&nbsp; The spells that make them the CR that they are supposed to be will be actions now.Sorry, my bad.&nbsp; Cleansing Touch was the second one.&nbsp; Can't remove a spell effect if it ain't a spell any longer.Dungeon of the Mad Mage1. Halaster2. Trenzia3. Midna4. Rizzeryl5. Marta6. Ilnor Telenna7. T'rissa Auvryndar8. Barlgura9. Barlgura #210. Drider Spellcaster11. Mind Flayer12. PreetaI didn't bother with the myriad of Drow, even though the party might want to counter or dispel the Faerie Fire or Levitate abilities. There's a dozen and I only looked at the first 3(out of 23) levels.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Maxperson, post: 8417583, member: 23751"] Maybe you avoid putting spellcasters in your game, but in every game I've ever run or played in, they were commonly encountered. Your personal game doesn't make them insignificant. If by "don't even usually have spellcasting" you mean all of them do, then you would be correct!! Here's the list of Demon lords from Mordenkainen's 1. Baphomet - Has innate spellcasting 2. Demogorgon - Has innate spellcasting 3. Fraz-Urb'Luu - Has innate spellcasting 4. Graz'zt - Has innate spellcasting 5. Juiblex - Has innate spellcasting 6. Orcus? You guessed it! Has innate spellcasting. 7. Yeenoghu - Innate spellcasting! 8. Zuggtmoy - Has innate spellcasting. That's all of demon lords. Note that they are not usually encountered alone and many of the lesser and greater demons also have......................innate spellcasting! Now for the Archdevils 1. Bael - Innate spellcasting 2. Geryon - Innate spellcasting 3. Hutijin - Without looking I guessed he would have innate spellcasting. I was right. 4. Moloch - Innate spellcasting 5. Titivilus - Innate spellcasting 6. Zariel - Innate spellcasting That's 100% of the Archdevils/Dukes of Hell as well. I'm beginning to think that you didn't look before you claimed that they, "don't even usually have spellcasting." You did remember that I said Demon Lords and Archdevils, right? This wasn't another example of you trying to twist things away from what I said, was it? That was not said. It was just said that the big spells would be abilities, not that all of them were damaging spells. The spells that make them the CR that they are supposed to be will be actions now. Sorry, my bad. Cleansing Touch was the second one. Can't remove a spell effect if it ain't a spell any longer. Dungeon of the Mad Mage 1. Halaster 2. Trenzia 3. Midna 4. Rizzeryl 5. Marta 6. Ilnor Telenna 7. T'rissa Auvryndar 8. Barlgura 9. Barlgura #2 10. Drider Spellcaster 11. Mind Flayer 12. Preeta I didn't bother with the myriad of Drow, even though the party might want to counter or dispel the Faerie Fire or Levitate abilities. There's a dozen and I only looked at the first 3(out of 23) levels. [/QUOTE]

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