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Counterspell what do people think?
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<blockquote data-quote="BigBadDM" data-source="post: 7642451" data-attributes="member: 6862128"><p>I've been on both sides of the screens though I play as a DM 75% of the time.</p><p></p><p>As a DM I 'personally' don't have a problem with the spell. It makes the players feel good and elates them like they thwarted this BigBadDM. I like that the player has a 'shining' moment. </p><p></p><p>Now, on the player's side of the screen--no other spell will generate more animosity toward your character than this spell. Be forewarned if you use this on some 'unexperienced' DMs as they may take a grudge toward your character and put a big old bullseye on you going forward. I believe this has to do with you essentially 'trivializing' encounters with spell casters. I have seen this in a few games I played with DMs who tend to be better role-players than mechanic munchkins (this is a good thing usually). The good role-playing DMs don't like when you ruin their 'planned out' encounters. Mechanical DMs don't seem to care as much. The onus falls just as much on the player as the DM, know your audience before picking spells like this (or the Diviner class). </p><p></p><p>As a DM,I can still make an encounter feel like a threat--throw in two or three spell casters from time to time. Don't over do it, but does ramp up the danger sometimes. Most encounters are only written with one spell-caster with minor fodder underlings.</p><p></p><p>Some DMs allow the player to know the know what the opposing caster is casting before counter spelling. Whether this is by some skill check or innate knowledge, this can overbalance the spell at times. It's fine, but I would try without the player knowing for a bit to see if that adds more dramatic action. A lot of this spell comes from fairness... no fudging/changing what spell an enemy cast just because it was counter-spelled. </p><p></p><p>I also find that there is an over reliance to this spell instead of say: Dispel Magic. While counterspell is better in combat situations, Dispel Magic is way more utilitarian both in and out of combat. Remove that Mage Armor, disarm the magic chest, etc.. Sometimes things that are best to have are not necessarily the most fun in play. I find this the case with 'my character' having counterspell and no longer take the spell. As far as fun, I would rather just have Dispel Magic. See what the enemy caster uses on the party and determine Ad-hoc if I should dispel the effect if applicable. It's not the most optimal obviously--but more enjoyable (at least to me). </p><p></p><p>And as a last bit I am going to include the last quote. While true there is a 'spell slot' tax there are may ways to get back a third level slot (arcane recovery/metamagic). And when it a fight it is one of the few spells you won't mind casting this at 4th level or even 5th level. In all honestly, I think it plays more as a 4th level spell than a 3rd as far as power curve.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="BigBadDM, post: 7642451, member: 6862128"] I've been on both sides of the screens though I play as a DM 75% of the time. As a DM I 'personally' don't have a problem with the spell. It makes the players feel good and elates them like they thwarted this BigBadDM. I like that the player has a 'shining' moment. Now, on the player's side of the screen--no other spell will generate more animosity toward your character than this spell. Be forewarned if you use this on some 'unexperienced' DMs as they may take a grudge toward your character and put a big old bullseye on you going forward. I believe this has to do with you essentially 'trivializing' encounters with spell casters. I have seen this in a few games I played with DMs who tend to be better role-players than mechanic munchkins (this is a good thing usually). The good role-playing DMs don't like when you ruin their 'planned out' encounters. Mechanical DMs don't seem to care as much. The onus falls just as much on the player as the DM, know your audience before picking spells like this (or the Diviner class). As a DM,I can still make an encounter feel like a threat--throw in two or three spell casters from time to time. Don't over do it, but does ramp up the danger sometimes. Most encounters are only written with one spell-caster with minor fodder underlings. Some DMs allow the player to know the know what the opposing caster is casting before counter spelling. Whether this is by some skill check or innate knowledge, this can overbalance the spell at times. It's fine, but I would try without the player knowing for a bit to see if that adds more dramatic action. A lot of this spell comes from fairness... no fudging/changing what spell an enemy cast just because it was counter-spelled. I also find that there is an over reliance to this spell instead of say: Dispel Magic. While counterspell is better in combat situations, Dispel Magic is way more utilitarian both in and out of combat. Remove that Mage Armor, disarm the magic chest, etc.. Sometimes things that are best to have are not necessarily the most fun in play. I find this the case with 'my character' having counterspell and no longer take the spell. As far as fun, I would rather just have Dispel Magic. See what the enemy caster uses on the party and determine Ad-hoc if I should dispel the effect if applicable. It's not the most optimal obviously--but more enjoyable (at least to me). And as a last bit I am going to include the last quote. While true there is a 'spell slot' tax there are may ways to get back a third level slot (arcane recovery/metamagic). And when it a fight it is one of the few spells you won't mind casting this at 4th level or even 5th level. In all honestly, I think it plays more as a 4th level spell than a 3rd as far as power curve. [/QUOTE]
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