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<blockquote data-quote="WaterRabbit" data-source="post: 7646134" data-attributes="member: 2445"><p>A Clear Path to the Target (PHB pg. 204)</p><p>"To target something, you must have a clear path to <strong>it</strong>, so <strong>it</strong> can't be behind total cover."</p><p></p><p>Cover (PHB pg 196)</p><p>A target with <strong>total cover</strong> can't be targeted directly by an attack or a spell, although some spells can reach such a target by including it in an area of effect. A target has <strong>total cove</strong>r if it is completely concealed by an obstacle.</p><p></p><p>The caster can be behind total cover, just as an archer can fire through an arrow slit. The only "contradiction" a DM has to adjudicate would be how big a hole there has to be in total cover for a person to cast a spell through it and for it to still be total cover -- probably less than an arrow slit, but bigger than a gold piece. Also, while I understand your meaning, Line of Effect isn't really a term in 5e.</p><p></p><p>No the mage hasn't trapped himself.</p><p>Yes, there are other spells that allow one to get through barriers, they just aren't commonly employed by parties that prioritize <em>counterspell</em> in their spell selections.</p><p>No, the mage in question isn't behind a door. The door just leads to the sanctum which isn't in the room the mage is viewing. The point of the triple locked door is just to slow the party down (assuming they can find it in the first place).</p><p>It is like you have never played the game. If you really need me to, I can draw a map for you, since you cannot seem to imagine how it would work.</p><p></p><p>Your <em>assumption</em> here is that the NPC mages are only casting directly at the PCs. All of the tricks I have mentioned are designed to give the mage space and time to bring out their spells. Many spells don't require the mage to have LOS/LOE for them to cast. For example, <em>Greater Invisibility</em> is only useful if the mage has time and space to cast it. If the mage risks been countered or pincushioned by archers it is a bit of a waste. Summons, buffs and the like also work well, and the aforementioned <em>Magic Jar</em>.</p><p></p><p>I can also see how if D&D 5e is the only game you have played why you might not think of "extreme" measures like these. However, in previous versions (1st, 2nd, and 3rd) spellcasters could be interrupted without using <em>counterspell</em>, so a prudent caster did their best to avoid having a direct <em>reciprocal</em> LOS to their opponents. In 1st edition, my cleric could never get a spell off if I had LOS to a wizard as they would interrupt my spells with <em>magic missile</em>. (MM was a fast spell and all Cleric spells were slow.)</p><p></p><p>You seem to think <em>counterspell</em> is a god spell that cannot be trivially dealt with. Just like you seem to think medicine is a god skill that is used all of the time. While they might indeed by that powerful in games you run, they are not at most tables. I have been playing/running D&D (and other RPGs) for a very long time. The number of opportunities for <em>counterspell</em> to be effective are few and far between. Just like the number of opportunities for medicine to be used are few and far between (assuming that both existed in their current form in older/other games).</p><p></p><p>If you feel that <em>counterspell</em> is that powerful, I would first challenge you to look at your encounter design and rethink how you run NPC mages. On the other hand, if your players are complaining about getting countered, I would challenge them to play their mages smarter.</p><p></p><p>It seems like your posts are just trying to pick a fight. You also show look up the word "assumption" since you have been using it wrong every single time.</p><p></p><p>Note: I am using mage in the generic sense to mean anyone that casts spells as typing spellcaster over and over is cumbersome. Obviously, different casters have to employ different strategies, but the idea is that casters should avoid, when possible, exposing themselves to attacks/counters. It is why warlocks with Devil's Sight and <em>darkness</em> have such an advantage -- cast <em>darkness</em> on a rock while behind total cover, step out and EB your foes to death. You can see them and they cannot see you.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="WaterRabbit, post: 7646134, member: 2445"] A Clear Path to the Target (PHB pg. 204) "To target something, you must have a clear path to [B]it[/B], so [B]it[/B] can't be behind total cover." Cover (PHB pg 196) A target with [B]total cover[/B] can't be targeted directly by an attack or a spell, although some spells can reach such a target by including it in an area of effect. A target has [B]total cove[/B]r if it is completely concealed by an obstacle. The caster can be behind total cover, just as an archer can fire through an arrow slit. The only "contradiction" a DM has to adjudicate would be how big a hole there has to be in total cover for a person to cast a spell through it and for it to still be total cover -- probably less than an arrow slit, but bigger than a gold piece. Also, while I understand your meaning, Line of Effect isn't really a term in 5e. No the mage hasn't trapped himself. Yes, there are other spells that allow one to get through barriers, they just aren't commonly employed by parties that prioritize [I]counterspell[/I] in their spell selections. No, the mage in question isn't behind a door. The door just leads to the sanctum which isn't in the room the mage is viewing. The point of the triple locked door is just to slow the party down (assuming they can find it in the first place). It is like you have never played the game. If you really need me to, I can draw a map for you, since you cannot seem to imagine how it would work. Your [I]assumption[/I] here is that the NPC mages are only casting directly at the PCs. All of the tricks I have mentioned are designed to give the mage space and time to bring out their spells. Many spells don't require the mage to have LOS/LOE for them to cast. For example, [I]Greater Invisibility[/I] is only useful if the mage has time and space to cast it. If the mage risks been countered or pincushioned by archers it is a bit of a waste. Summons, buffs and the like also work well, and the aforementioned [I]Magic Jar[/I]. I can also see how if D&D 5e is the only game you have played why you might not think of "extreme" measures like these. However, in previous versions (1st, 2nd, and 3rd) spellcasters could be interrupted without using [I]counterspell[/I], so a prudent caster did their best to avoid having a direct [I]reciprocal[/I] LOS to their opponents. In 1st edition, my cleric could never get a spell off if I had LOS to a wizard as they would interrupt my spells with [I]magic missile[/I]. (MM was a fast spell and all Cleric spells were slow.) You seem to think [I]counterspell[/I] is a god spell that cannot be trivially dealt with. Just like you seem to think medicine is a god skill that is used all of the time. While they might indeed by that powerful in games you run, they are not at most tables. I have been playing/running D&D (and other RPGs) for a very long time. The number of opportunities for [I]counterspell[/I] to be effective are few and far between. Just like the number of opportunities for medicine to be used are few and far between (assuming that both existed in their current form in older/other games). If you feel that [I]counterspell[/I] is that powerful, I would first challenge you to look at your encounter design and rethink how you run NPC mages. On the other hand, if your players are complaining about getting countered, I would challenge them to play their mages smarter. It seems like your posts are just trying to pick a fight. You also show look up the word "assumption" since you have been using it wrong every single time. Note: I am using mage in the generic sense to mean anyone that casts spells as typing spellcaster over and over is cumbersome. Obviously, different casters have to employ different strategies, but the idea is that casters should avoid, when possible, exposing themselves to attacks/counters. It is why warlocks with Devil's Sight and [I]darkness[/I] have such an advantage -- cast [I]darkness[/I] on a rock while behind total cover, step out and EB your foes to death. You can see them and they cannot see you. [/QUOTE]
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