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<blockquote data-quote="WaterRabbit" data-source="post: 7646440" data-attributes="member: 2445"><p>Yes, that is the implication.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Depends on the door doesn't it? But let's use an example we are probably familiar with -- the arcanaloth in the Amber Temple in CoS. Perfect example of a caster setup to avoid being attacked directly by the party. The only thing missing is <em>arcane lock</em> on the door and it barred from the inside. A party isn't going to get through that door with axes and hammers.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes. You have been following the thread right?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>First, an open-field battle really isn't more typical. But unless you are talking an open field with no cover what-so-ever, this has also been addressed up thread.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Even in 1st edition, MM could deliver more than one missile. So while effective against a 1st level wizard, at 3rd and higher more than one caster wasn't very effective. Generally, the best counter was a bowman who won initiative. Generally, in 1st edition we did have more than one caster since our parties were about a dozen players. So the counter to your counter was already there as the enemies were typically had more than one wizard. Also in 1st edition dungeon develing was much more the norm and it was much easier to get bottlenecked at doorways and the like. Bottlenecks are kind of two-edged sword depending on which side can win the range war. In 1st edition, <em>counterspell</em> would have fallen into the segment initiative system and would have more often than not been interrupted because MM was king in that system -- <em>shield</em> was mandatory for wizards to survive spell duels.</p><p></p><p>IMHO, 1st edition still has the best initiative system. While more complicated, it offered much more interaction and handled interrupts more cleanly.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="WaterRabbit, post: 7646440, member: 2445"] Yes, that is the implication. Depends on the door doesn't it? But let's use an example we are probably familiar with -- the arcanaloth in the Amber Temple in CoS. Perfect example of a caster setup to avoid being attacked directly by the party. The only thing missing is [I]arcane lock[/I] on the door and it barred from the inside. A party isn't going to get through that door with axes and hammers. Yes. You have been following the thread right? First, an open-field battle really isn't more typical. But unless you are talking an open field with no cover what-so-ever, this has also been addressed up thread. Even in 1st edition, MM could deliver more than one missile. So while effective against a 1st level wizard, at 3rd and higher more than one caster wasn't very effective. Generally, the best counter was a bowman who won initiative. Generally, in 1st edition we did have more than one caster since our parties were about a dozen players. So the counter to your counter was already there as the enemies were typically had more than one wizard. Also in 1st edition dungeon develing was much more the norm and it was much easier to get bottlenecked at doorways and the like. Bottlenecks are kind of two-edged sword depending on which side can win the range war. In 1st edition, [I]counterspell[/I] would have fallen into the segment initiative system and would have more often than not been interrupted because MM was king in that system -- [I]shield[/I] was mandatory for wizards to survive spell duels. IMHO, 1st edition still has the best initiative system. While more complicated, it offered much more interaction and handled interrupts more cleanly. [/QUOTE]
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