Counterspells

[Infiniti2000]

Can you counterspell a counterspell? I think yes since the counterspell is, in fact, a spell. But, maybe I missed something.

To those who think that counterspelling is a bad tactical option and are about to reply "Who cares?" This may come up soon because the Archmage in my group has mastery of counterspells and is about to fight an opponent sorcerer who is buffed with duelward.

Anyone else have counterspell questions?

 

[frankthedm]

This may come up soon because the Archmage in my group has mastery of counterspells and is about to fight an opponent sorcerer who is buffed with duelward.

I don't know how those work.

To use a counterspell, you must select an opponent as the target of the counterspell. You do this by choosing the ready action. In doing so, you elect to wait to complete your action until your opponent tries to cast a spell. (You may still move your speed, since ready is a standard action.)

If the target of your counterspell tries to cast a spell, make a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + the spell’s level). This check is a free action. If the check succeeds, you correctly identify the opponent’s spell and can attempt to counter it. If the check fails, you can’t do either of these things.

To complete the action, you must then cast the correct spell. As a general rule, a spell can only counter itself. If you are able to cast the same spell and you have it prepared (if you prepare spells), you cast it, altering it slightly to create a counterspell effect. If the target is within range, both spells automatically negate each other with no other results.
Counterspelling Metamagic Spells

Metamagic feats are not taken into account when determining whether a spell can be countered
Specific Exceptions

Some spells specifically counter each other, especially when they have diametrically opposed effects.

Dispel Magic as a Counterspell

You can use dispel magic to counterspell another spellcaster, and you don’t need to identify the spell he or she is casting. However, dispel magic doesn’t always work as a counterspell.

 

[TessarrianDM]

I don't know how those work.

Basically:

Mastery of Counterspelling: When an archmage counterspells a spell, it is turned back on the caster as if affected by a spell turning spell. If the spell cannot be turned, it is counterspelled instead.

Duelward spell: Counterspell as an immediate action, with a +4 bonus to your Spellcraft check. Ends after successful counterspell.

So, the poster's question becomes:

If a sorcerer under effect of Duelward casts a spell at the Archmage, the Archmage counterspells and turns it back on the sorcerer, can the sorcerer counterspell the turned spell as an immediate action? I would say yes, if he has either Dispel Magic, a slot of the same level that he can use to cast the same spell as a counterspell, or the Improved Counterspell feat and a spell from the same school one level higher that he could cast as the counterspell.

 

[Infiniti2000]

The sorcerer has greater dispel magic, so that would likely be his choice. Thanks, TessarrianDM.

 

[frankthedm]

Nope, duelward won't help, the sorcerer is SOL.

1. The sorcerer's spell was already countered. The Archmage countered it. Unless you allow immediate actions to cause time warps, the Sorcerer can't use his immediate action to counter his own spell before the Archmage countered it after the sorcerer finds out it's coming back at him.

2. The Archmage does not cast Spell Turning, his class ability turned the foes spell back upon the caster as if it were fully affected by a spell turning spell should he counter the spell.

3. It sure seems you only can only counter opponent's spells.

 

[billd91]

The only way I would consider allowing someone to counter a counter-spell would be if it were a 3rd character doing the next round of countering. The person casting the original spell is already committed and his action won't even really be resolved until the first held interruption is resolved in the first place.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Nope, duelward won't help, the sorcerer is SOL.

1. The sorcerer's spell was already countered. The Archmage countered it. Unless you allow immediate actions to cause time warps, the Sorcerer can't use his immediate action to counter his own spell before the Archmage countered it after the sorcerer finds out it's coming back at him.

No, I'm not suggesting the sorcerer counter his own spell, but counter the archmage's spell that the archmage uses to counterspell in the first place.

2. The Archmage does not cast Spell Turning, his class ability turned the foes spell back upon the caster as if it were fully affected by a spell turning spell should he counter the spell.

The archmage may or may not have spell turning, too, by the way, but the sorcerer will probably not do any targeting of spells. The pit fiend will be busy with some area effect GDM's to help, btw.

3. It sure seems you only can only counter opponent's spells.

Agreed.