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Message: <blockquote data-quote="HeinorNY" data-source="post: 2859753" data-attributes="member: 16178">So "before making attack rolls for a round, you may choose to subtract a number from all melee attack rolls and add the same number to all melee damage rolls." and "When you use the attack action or the full attack action in melee," are totally different things? To get the benefit from PA don't you need to make an attack roll, and thus take an attack action?Ok, I understand your point, but IMO the rules are the same. The statement in CE is juts more strict and clear so bad players won't try to cheat, by using that idea of "I say i'm going to use CE, get the bonus on CA and then i just don't attack." It happens because mechanically, you have to make an attack to get the benefit from PA, so it would be redundant to say you have to take the attack action. The feat "resolves" when you attack.But you only get the benefit from CE if someone attacks you, you don't get it by making attacks, your attack doesn't "resolve" the feat benefits. So if it stated "before making an melee attack roll, you subtract a number from all melee attack rolls and add the same number to you AC, the feat could be "resolved" before you make any attack, if you provoke somehow an AoO before attacking. Or you could provoke this situation in order to cheat.Both feats work the same way, you attack with a penalty and you get a bonus to damage or AC, simple. And you need to attack in order to be eligible to get both feat benefits, it's obvious in PA because it can't work in any other way, but it can in CE.The description of CE isn't there to make it different from PA, it is there to make it identical to PA.</blockquote>

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