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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
CR balance and proof of concept...or not
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<blockquote data-quote="UngeheuerLich" data-source="post: 6293535" data-attributes="member: 59057"><p>As others said: PCs are partially balanced by the fact that some classes are a bit stronger on a longer day, some are a bit stronger on a shorter day. I don´t mind that. I believe, all classes are closer together than in 3.x. Every class gets something back on a short rest, even wizards, so a 5 min work day seems not so good as in 3.x. The limitation of 1 big buff spell per level also limits nova potential (buff up, scry and teleport) and also encourages wizards to spread their spells over several encounters, saving up for the big buff spell in the next encounter.</p><p></p><p>If you compare damaging spells and those concentration spells, you´ll notice, that a wizard gets a lot more mileage out of his spells if he does not "waste them" all at once. this is only on last resort, a position the Big Bad Wizard should be everytime in the last battle. But usually the PC wizard also tries to safe up as much as possible to face him.</p><p></p><p>As others mention, XP is the main encounter building tool. I could even imagine two creatures with the same XP but different CR, as one works particularly well in groups, but can´t deal a lot of damage by himself, while a glass cannon like enemy has a high CR, but a comparable low XP, because at lower levels, he may kill one PC after another, while being nearly immune to PC attacks (Utilizing a fly spell). Once PCs can cast fly themselves or have powerful ranged attacks, the flying enemy who can´t kill a PC in a single blow is now very vulnerable himself.</p><p></p><p>So to back it up with numbers:</p><p></p><p>Wizard 5: CR 5, xp 1000</p><p>Fighter 5: CR 3, XP 1000</p><p></p><p>The wizard can easily take out lvl 3 PCs, flying in the air, shield spell to deflect arrows and magic missiles alike and killing the party with magic missiles and fireball spells. Once PCs are level 5, the PC wizard will bring him down, backed up by a flying fighter, but a well aimed fireball from the enemy wizard can still do quite a lot of damage.</p><p></p><p>The Fighter, without magical aid, has no such tricks up his sleeve and can be fought at level 3, but is very dangerous at this point. A party of 4 lvl 3 PCs can bring him down though. They just need to be careful of his 4 attack nova. But a lvl 3 fighter should be able to tank it.</p><p>A party of lvl 5 PCs will eventually kill him with ease. A party of 4 fighters are just as dangerous as a party of 4 wizards. 4 attacks of fokus fire from four longbows is equally effective as 4 times 4 magic missiles, and even 4 fireballs may not be more dangerous if the party spreads out a bit.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="UngeheuerLich, post: 6293535, member: 59057"] As others said: PCs are partially balanced by the fact that some classes are a bit stronger on a longer day, some are a bit stronger on a shorter day. I don´t mind that. I believe, all classes are closer together than in 3.x. Every class gets something back on a short rest, even wizards, so a 5 min work day seems not so good as in 3.x. The limitation of 1 big buff spell per level also limits nova potential (buff up, scry and teleport) and also encourages wizards to spread their spells over several encounters, saving up for the big buff spell in the next encounter. If you compare damaging spells and those concentration spells, you´ll notice, that a wizard gets a lot more mileage out of his spells if he does not "waste them" all at once. this is only on last resort, a position the Big Bad Wizard should be everytime in the last battle. But usually the PC wizard also tries to safe up as much as possible to face him. As others mention, XP is the main encounter building tool. I could even imagine two creatures with the same XP but different CR, as one works particularly well in groups, but can´t deal a lot of damage by himself, while a glass cannon like enemy has a high CR, but a comparable low XP, because at lower levels, he may kill one PC after another, while being nearly immune to PC attacks (Utilizing a fly spell). Once PCs can cast fly themselves or have powerful ranged attacks, the flying enemy who can´t kill a PC in a single blow is now very vulnerable himself. So to back it up with numbers: Wizard 5: CR 5, xp 1000 Fighter 5: CR 3, XP 1000 The wizard can easily take out lvl 3 PCs, flying in the air, shield spell to deflect arrows and magic missiles alike and killing the party with magic missiles and fireball spells. Once PCs are level 5, the PC wizard will bring him down, backed up by a flying fighter, but a well aimed fireball from the enemy wizard can still do quite a lot of damage. The Fighter, without magical aid, has no such tricks up his sleeve and can be fought at level 3, but is very dangerous at this point. A party of 4 lvl 3 PCs can bring him down though. They just need to be careful of his 4 attack nova. But a lvl 3 fighter should be able to tank it. A party of lvl 5 PCs will eventually kill him with ease. A party of 4 fighters are just as dangerous as a party of 4 wizards. 4 attacks of fokus fire from four longbows is equally effective as 4 times 4 magic missiles, and even 4 fireballs may not be more dangerous if the party spreads out a bit. [/QUOTE]
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