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Message: <blockquote data-quote="EntropyDecay" data-source="post: 834837" data-attributes="member: 10652">IMO, the creature is defeatable by the party at their current level. Problem is that the two players of the paladin & cleric don't want to sacrifice some spare time to study their character abilities. The only time they are looking at their spell list is when they are at the game table. So rule errors and forgetting abilities is quite normal for these two. They know this, we (other players and I) told them a few times that combat is not going to be easier in the future and that they should at least prepare a bit for the next gaming session (and learn the rules for casting spells). No problem with the other three players.The cleric has access to spells such as GMW, Protection from Evil, Dismissal and information spells such as Divination, to name just a few. He has the Strength domain but since now never used the domain ability. The paladin could have prepared obvious spells such as Protection from Evil and Bless Weapon (even if just for the auto-crit). But somehow they expect that each opponent should be a no-brainer that is defeatable by "CHARGE!", hack, hack without ANY use of abilities and special equipment, and spells should be so powerful that just one should render the opponent helpless even if the spell description says that it don't works against that type of opponent.I have no problem with helping players if their character would know something that the player doesn't. But in exchange I expect that the player learns at least the rules and knows what his character can do and what he can't do.The whole discussion is not about "Challenging players with monster nearly undefeatable for them" but "Monsters that should be no big problem if they would think at least a bit". Should a wizard win a fight against a mighty dragon when he would charge it with a dagger and battle it in melee combat? Should a fighter win if he accepted a magic duel with a sorceror? Should a paladin and a cleric survive every battle when they are not using their class abilities and just attack like they were fighters (at least a fighter would have enough feats to survive such a tactic)?IMO, a player should be able to defeat an opponent if he uses his characters strengths. And sometimes the party should meet enemies that are hard to battle, that require the party to work together and that reward a bit of thinking with the sweet feeling of a hard earned victory.Chris</blockquote>

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