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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Johnny Angel" data-source="post: 3647380" data-attributes="member: 13334">So, I've been working with this Grim Tales creature creation system, and some issues have come up with regard to its compatability to d20 Modern.  Conveniently, the system separates CR calculations for inherent traits of creature types from HD-dependent traits of creature types.  Comparing the HD-dependent abilities listed in MM35 290 to similar data by type spread through d20M 218-224 I find no differences in the die types and BAB advancement and a couple of differences in the saving throws.  The main differences between D&D and d20 Modern seem to lie in the numbers of skill points and feats given to each creature type.  The D&D rules are fairly consistent -- for feats, 1 plus one per 3 HD, for skills 8 plus INT mod per HD for Outsiders, 6 for dragons and fey, 4 for intelligent undead, and 2 for everybody else.  d20 Modern's Creature Factory has an eccentric list of rules to derive skill points and feats for each creature type.  I've been trying to reverse-engineer the CR per HD value of creature types in Grim Tales to see if I can figure out if the values given for what is presumably based on the D&D charts is valid for the d20 Modern charts.Note that I assume that the Grim Tales Creature Creation .pdf is referring to the D&D info because it mentions the D&D rule for number of feats (1, plus 1 per 3 HD) on page 12.  Nowhere does it refer to the charts or data you need to actually assign die types, saving throws and BAB to creatures, even though these are part of the SRD for both 3.5 and Modern.  It would have been handy if they had included this information and an explanation of how the system dovetailed with the one provided in the SRD.Testing to see whether or not the CR per HD values should change between the ones apparently for D&D and the ones for d20 Modern given that the main difference is in skill points and feats, I broke the D&D data into minimum-difference pairs.  So far I haven't found any consistent way to make these numbers work, especially given that intelligent constructs seem to have a lower CR per HD rating than intelligent oozes for the exact same array of HD-dependent abilities.  Before, and hopefully in lieu of, banging my head against this problem for a while, I thought perhaps I could just ask the gang here:1)  Given the difference in skill points and numbers of feats between the system used in D&D and that used in d20 Modern, can the CR per HD numbers in Grim Tales be used for either?2)  If not, what adjustments should be made?3)  Why did WoTC decide to make the skill points and feats determination not only different from that in D&D, but wildly different and not even internally consistent?</blockquote>

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