CR/EL/LA oh my

[dvvega]

Okay so CR is the challenge rating, EL is the encounter level (combination of multiple CRs), and LA is level adjustment for a PC race.

I understand these concepts.

What I don't understand is certain monster entries ... for example ... Rakshasa, LA +7, but a CR10.

Now by my reckoning, if I create a BBEG Rakshasa/Fighter 5 he would be CR15, however if a player create him he would be a 12th level character ... am I wrong in this?

And of course comparing the Rakshasa to the Ogre Mage (both LA +7) confuses me since the Ogre Mage (although gaining +10 Strength) isn't really up to scratch vs the Rakshasa.

Some enlightenment will be good.

Thanks in Advance

 

[Suldulin]

I think you're forgetting about the racial hd, that would alter things quite a bit

 

[Drew]

You have it right. ECL and LA have very little to do with CR. Remember that a CR 10 creature should use up about 25% of the resources of a typical 10th level party of 4 PCs. While useful for combat and other short appearances, this does not neccessarily mean the creature is equivalent to a 10th level character for purposes of adventuring. Things change when spread out over multiple encounters, and a creature with a few abilities usuable lots of times per day can really outshine other PCs quickly.

In your example, the Rakshasa fighter would be an appropriate challenge for a 15th level party. As a member of a group of PCs, however, he would be about as powerful as a 12th level character.

 

[Derren]

Don't forget that when you are playing a monster as player, you have to add its HD to its La for the ECL (LA represents how many levels worth of special abilities the monster have. ECL is the total of LA and the HD of the creature and is what is added to the normal levels to get the total character level.)

A Rakshasa has an LA of +7 and 7 HD for a total of 14.
A Rakshasa/Fighter 5 would therefore be a 19th level character (14+5)

 

[dvvega]

Oh okay so you add the hitdice to the LA and you have a final figure there.

Okay so if that's the case then LA SHOULD have included that already in my opinion, but okay. If that is the case then I understand now.

Thank You

 

[Oscar carramiñana]

Don't forget that when you are playing a monster as player, you have to add its HD to its La for the ECL (LA represents how many levels worth of special abilities the monster have. ECL is the total of LA and the HD of the creature and is what is added to the normal levels to get the total character level.)

A Rakshasa has an LA of +7 and 7 HD for a total of 14.
A Rakshasa/Fighter 5 would therefore be a 19th level character (14+5)

I know the Rakshasa very well as NPC or BBG are good I think make one of them PC is stupid
a Rakshasa/ fighter 6 20lvlPC is too weak vs any oponent at 15lvl

 

[Li Shenron]

Use CR and EL only for creatures which are against the player characters in combat.

Use ECL for player characters or friendly NPC which come along with the party.

The same creature normally has an ECL much higher than its CR, because combat is so short that the creature would rarely use more than a few of its abilities, and would not use its noncombat abilities at all; as a player character, you have the chance to get advantage of every ability.

 

[dvvega]

Li ... I understand the whole CR/EL/LA thing ... what I didn't realise was that you add the monster hit dice (the monster levels so to speak) to the level adjustment.

That makes my CR 15 Rakshasa/Fighter 5 a 19th level PC. That makes sense to me.

What wasn't making sense was if you ignore the monster levels and you get a CR 15 Rakshasa being a 12th level PC.

However I do think WOTC should have made LA include the monster levels. That would avoid so much confusion IMHO.