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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 3276557" data-attributes="member: 22779">Well, let us peruse CR 8 monsters, as an example.Athach HD: 14d8+70 HP: 133 AC: 20/9/19 Attack +12/+7 for 3d6+8 plus +12 (3d6+4)X2 and bite +12 for 2d8+4+poison 15 foot reach f/r/w: 9/5/10&nbsp; (probably the biggest of the lot)Behir HD 9d10+45 HP: 94 AC 20/9/19 Attack:&nbsp; Bite +15 for 2d4+12 SA of Constrict and rake plus a 7d6 breath weapon.Erinyes:&nbsp; HD: 9d8+45 HP: 85 AC 23/15/18 Attack +14/+9 for 1d8+5 F/R/W: 11/11/10 Immunities and some minor spell abilities.Dire Tiger HD: 1d68+48 HP:120 AC: 17/11/15 Attack +20 for 2d4+8x2 bite +14 for 2d6+4 F/R/W:&nbsp; 13/12/11Efreeti HD 10d8+20 HP 65 AC 18/12/15 Attack +15/+15 for 1d8+6+1d6 fire.&nbsp; F/R/W:9/10/9 Several spell like abilities.9 headed Hydra HD 9d10+48 HP 97 AC 19/9/18 Attack 9 bites +13 for 1d10+5 F/R/W: 11/7/5Meh, I'm getting bored of listing this stuff.&nbsp; There's the first 6 that I could find.&nbsp; AC's are all similar.&nbsp; Hp's are close.&nbsp; I'd say all those are about the same challenge to an 8th level party.&nbsp; Sure, some can do far more damage, like the hydra, but, it lacks special attacks and abilities, and has no ranged attack.&nbsp; A party with an 8th level mage can simply fly over it.&nbsp; While it has scent, as does the Dire Tiger, the others are very susceptible to invisibility.&nbsp; The 8th level fighter?&nbsp; Should be carting around about 10k gp worth of equipment.&nbsp; That's more than enough to make up for the differences with the giant.As I said, I've had no problems with the CR system.&nbsp; I really don't understand why people have such a hard time with it.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 3276557, member: 22779"] Well, let us peruse CR 8 monsters, as an example. Athach HD: 14d8+70 HP: 133 AC: 20/9/19 Attack +12/+7 for 3d6+8 plus +12 (3d6+4)X2 and bite +12 for 2d8+4+poison 15 foot reach f/r/w: 9/5/10 (probably the biggest of the lot) Behir HD 9d10+45 HP: 94 AC 20/9/19 Attack: Bite +15 for 2d4+12 SA of Constrict and rake plus a 7d6 breath weapon. Erinyes: HD: 9d8+45 HP: 85 AC 23/15/18 Attack +14/+9 for 1d8+5 F/R/W: 11/11/10 Immunities and some minor spell abilities. Dire Tiger HD: 1d68+48 HP:120 AC: 17/11/15 Attack +20 for 2d4+8x2 bite +14 for 2d6+4 F/R/W: 13/12/11 Efreeti HD 10d8+20 HP 65 AC 18/12/15 Attack +15/+15 for 1d8+6+1d6 fire. F/R/W:9/10/9 Several spell like abilities. 9 headed Hydra HD 9d10+48 HP 97 AC 19/9/18 Attack 9 bites +13 for 1d10+5 F/R/W: 11/7/5 Meh, I'm getting bored of listing this stuff. There's the first 6 that I could find. AC's are all similar. Hp's are close. I'd say all those are about the same challenge to an 8th level party. Sure, some can do far more damage, like the hydra, but, it lacks special attacks and abilities, and has no ranged attack. A party with an 8th level mage can simply fly over it. While it has scent, as does the Dire Tiger, the others are very susceptible to invisibility. The 8th level fighter? Should be carting around about 10k gp worth of equipment. That's more than enough to make up for the differences with the giant. As I said, I've had no problems with the CR system. I really don't understand why people have such a hard time with it. [/QUOTE]

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