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Message: <blockquote data-quote="FireLance" data-source="post: 3279600" data-attributes="member: 3424">First off, the true test of CR is not whether one creature can beat up another creature with the same CR, but how well it performs against a standard party of four adventurers (fighter, cleric, rogue, wizard) each of level equal to the CR.Second, the NPC fighter statistics quoted lack a few things: racial abilities, some feats, and about 4,900 gp worth of equipment. Making the NPC a dwarf, for example, helps to close the hit point gap without significantly affecting a fighter's class abilities.Picking the right combination of feats and equipment can close the gap further. An 8th-level dwarf fighter with Toughness (x3), Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, Greater Weapon Focus, Dodge, Power Attack, gauntlets of ogre power, +1 full plate armor, +1 amulet of natural armor, and a +1 greatsword has AC 21 (22 with Dodge), 81 hp, attacks at +15/+10 and deals 2d6+12 points of damage. Still not as good as a stone giant, but not very different from a CR 7 hill giant (AC 20, 102 hp, +16/+11 for 2d8+10). Hence, even if the fighter is a slightly easier fight, it isn't excessively so. And this is assuming core only. With non-core options such as Improved Toughness, Heavy Armor Optimization, and Martial Study to gain access to Book of Nine Swords maneuvers, the fighter gets even better.In addition, the fighter can do more than threaten hit points. Give him Improved Sunder and an admantine weapon (+3,000 gp), and the PCs will fear for their gear. Give him a necklace of fireballs (Type II or III) (2,700 gp or 4,350 gp), and there could be a 6d6 or 7d6 fireball washing over all the PCs in the first round of combat (the rogue will probably evade it, though). Switch some ability scores around so that he can take Improved Disarm and Improved Trip, arm him with a heavy flail or spiked chain, and you get a good trick fighter. Challenge isn't just about stripping hit points from the PCs.</blockquote>

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