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<blockquote data-quote="Fishbone" data-source="post: 3280266" data-attributes="member: 40849">The giants are the core pinnacle of combat meastiness, perhaps having an 8th level core fighter try to outmeast a Stone Giant is a bit unfair? Lets have a breakdown of the 8th level fighter versus some scrub monsters.8th level Fighter Versus 10-diced Elite scored Hellcock(Technically achaierai, but I refuse to type that any further)HP:64 Versus 85 Large edge here for the HellcockAC: Both 22, Hellcock has better touch AC, fighter could spend wealth on AC pumping cheese, maybe 4-8 more AC. The Hellcock has Dodge and Mobility but I still give the nod to the fighter. The advantage is as big as you want it to be.Attacks +12/+7 versus +16/+14(took multiattack as the HD feat)Movement: The Fullplate rocking fighter gets a circle danced around it here, 20 feet versus 50 feet, plus the Hellcock has the Dodge, Mobility and Spring Attack tree.Damage: Edge to the Hellcock. Two attacks at 2d6+7 and another one at 4d6+3 damage, and all of them are significantly more likely to hit.Saves and miscellanea: Hellcock by quite a bit, its worst save is better than the fighter's best.SR 19 is also a big deal for a group of 7th or 8th level people to overcome. Factor in a breath weapon that functions as Insanity at DC 19 and the verdict? The fighter gets blown out of the water here.Its plain to see that even such a benchwarmer creature like the Hellcock is better than a core Fighter. Now if it were say, a Raging Dwarf barbarian the edge would not be that big but it would still exsist.Edit:I was being nice by not giving out some levels instead of the elite scores. Just about every martial class is attractive. The Barbarian rage and the fighter's 2 free feats would make the thing a lot scarier.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Fishbone, post: 3280266, member: 40849"] The giants are the core pinnacle of combat meastiness, perhaps having an 8th level core fighter try to outmeast a Stone Giant is a bit unfair? Lets have a breakdown of the 8th level fighter versus some scrub monsters. 8th level Fighter Versus 10-diced Elite scored Hellcock(Technically achaierai, but I refuse to type that any further) HP:64 Versus 85 Large edge here for the Hellcock AC: Both 22, Hellcock has better touch AC, fighter could spend wealth on AC pumping cheese, maybe 4-8 more AC. The Hellcock has Dodge and Mobility but I still give the nod to the fighter. The advantage is as big as you want it to be. Attacks +12/+7 versus +16/+14(took multiattack as the HD feat) Movement: The Fullplate rocking fighter gets a circle danced around it here, 20 feet versus 50 feet, plus the Hellcock has the Dodge, Mobility and Spring Attack tree. Damage: Edge to the Hellcock. Two attacks at 2d6+7 and another one at 4d6+3 damage, and all of them are significantly more likely to hit. Saves and miscellanea: Hellcock by quite a bit, its worst save is better than the fighter's best. SR 19 is also a big deal for a group of 7th or 8th level people to overcome. Factor in a breath weapon that functions as Insanity at DC 19 and the verdict? The fighter gets blown out of the water here. Its plain to see that even such a benchwarmer creature like the Hellcock is better than a core Fighter. Now if it were say, a Raging Dwarf barbarian the edge would not be that big but it would still exsist. Edit:I was being nice by not giving out some levels instead of the elite scores. Just about every martial class is attractive. The Barbarian rage and the fighter's 2 free feats would make the thing a lot scarier. [/QUOTE]

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