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Message: <blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 3280638" data-attributes="member: 2067">I bolded what I gather is the crux of that paragraph, and I can't help but disagree. In the real world, four people ganging up on one other person is drastically different from two people duelling. In D&D, the diverse skill set of rogues, wizards, fighters, and clerics is quite a world away from a single fighter.So, I guess I'm going to have to ask you to back up that statement. What information leads you to believe that four people against one isn't very different from one person against one?Read Firelance's post again. It demonstrates pretty admirably that the equipment makes a significant difference. Now, certainly if the call for CR rating is between "high end of 7 and low end of 8," the CR system isn't wildly inaccurate and useless; rather, it is a good guideline, regardless of where you may personally put that capability.Exactly how accurate CR is, is a matter of some debate. I'm merely saying that calling it copmletely useless or wildly off-base or pulled out of a hat or other such statements are needless exaggerations that do nothing to help the case of thoe who feel that CR is not as accurate as it should be.If you feel that an 8th level NPC fighter should be CR 7 instead of CR 8, I suggest that such a demarcation is not some egregious miscalculation on some massive scale, so the hyperbole is unwarranted.I'm making no defense of CR myself, merely pointing out that claiming they were "pulled out of a hat" or somesuch is pointless hyperbole. That's actually not a very good test of whether or not they're in the same "range" power-wise as far as CR is concerned. There are different ways to measure power, depending on the cirucmstances -- as part of a party, with particular opponents, in particular environments...CR measures the power of one creature against the ideal "party of four", giving a baseline account of one type of creature power. CR was never meant to measure who could take what in a one-on-one fight against similar creatures, so such a fight would not give a viable CR. In other words, it seems to me that you are misunderstanding what CR actually measures. A stone giant may be able to kill 6 8th level NPC fighters, but could it kill 1 8th level PC fighter, 1 8th level PC rogue, 1 8th level PC cleric, and 1 8th level PC wizard? Or would it just consume some of their rescources and then be dead? CR was never meant to account for monster-on-monster (or NPC-on-NPC battles), so it's no surprise that you think it's wrong if you've been using it as such.The substance of your argument is done no justice by gratuitous exaggerations and hyperbole. This isn't intended to insult, but to inform: you can criticize the CR/EL system (or whatever) without belittling it.</blockquote>

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