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Message: <blockquote data-quote="BeauNiddle" data-source="post: 4256833" data-attributes="member: 836">But how do you know what the flaw is? There are 2 options:1) 300 pages of charts and tables listing every possible flaw at every possible task at every possible skill level.2) DM fiat.I think everybody here agrees 1 is completely unreasonable to ask outside a book dedicated solely to crafting.Which leaves 2. WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT 4ED GIVES YOU. The players define a background about what they are interested in and the DM decides what effect that will have during the game and how well it worked (with or without a dice roll)A 'master' brewer makes a special brew for the king - roll a d20. On a low result the king likes it and orders 10 barrels for the next feast. On a high result the king reveals something important. An untrained fighter tries the same and a low result has the king spit it out and a high result has the king finish a swallow but leave the rest of the tankard.On a sidenote I will recount the story of how I came to dislike profession checks. We were playing 50 Fathoms, a setting for Savage Worlds set on a flooded planet. I was the boat captain. The first storm we came to I could see my character standing at the wheel, waves crashing around him, spray filling the air. The creak of the mast, the snap of the sail - I could hear all those things. It was great.The game continued and we acquired a second boat. And then a third. We had our flotilla and we sailed through all the seas. The problem is we had 4 players. One session I remember we had to deliver notes to towns about an upcoming invasion. It involved us sailing as far and as hard as we could. We faced reefs, storms and pirates. And at the end of the session I noted the fourth player hadn't picked up their dice once. NOT ONCE. He travelled 1 hour each way to the game which lasted 6 hours. Eight hours of his life were wasted by that game. From that point on I've hated the minigame. The rotating spotlight is just a phrase for 'it's your turn to suck until we care about you again'.Yes I understand that the DM screwed up but the very design of the system enforced the act of sailing and thus enforced the guy wasting his time. Since then I've had only one rule. If somebody gives up their free time to travel to a game then the LEAST you can do is let them play.4th ed with it's group skill challenges and removal of save or suck seems like a godsend to me. And if they've removed the rules suggesting people start playing mini-games then I'm even happier.</blockquote>

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