D&D 3E/3.5 Crafting costs minus provided materials (3.5)

[Xakk]

Two related questions:

I know on research that upgrading a magic item by the book costs the new item's cost minus the old's, in a nutshell. Would this also apply to creating a specific, named magic item if I knew it was constructed from a standard one, and provided that? What if the enhancement bonus was not the same as the one specified?

Secondarily, on the cost of creating an item with a special material: How would the cost be affected if I provided all the material necessary? I would assume there are still costs applicable for labor.

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

Tell me if I understand your question correctly:

Are you asking how much it would cost, if you already had the material equivalent in GP on your character? Like gold=raw materials?

A simple answer is that the cost to make an item is half the price of selling the item, so the cost of labor is half the price of the market value.

what does the line in the first question, "What if the enhancement bonus was not the same as the one specified?" mean?

 

[Jackinthegreen]

While not specifically stated, the MiC's rules for transferring specific bonuses on one weapon to others might mean you could add the extra stuff later. If I'm reading you right, you could create the base of a Luck Blade (+2 short sword) then add the luck bonus on saves and 1/day reroll by using up the difference in resources between them. Hopefully the items are priced properly enough to deal with this.

Special materials is another thing entirely, and unfortunately I don't know of any rules specific to this question.

 

[Jack Simth]

Two related questions:

I know on research that upgrading a magic item by the book costs the new item's cost minus the old's, in a nutshell. Would this also apply to creating a specific, named magic item if I knew it was constructed from a standard one, and provided that?

Generally speaking, if it's a craftable item (such as a Luck Blade), and you have a suitable base item (such as a +2 Shortsword), then yes, the Adding New Abilities clause lets you upgrade the base item to the improved item for the price difference (and crafting time). If you're upgrading it yourself, that's an 8,310 gp market for the +2 Short Sword, and a 22,060 gp market value for a Luck Blade (assuming 0 wishes...), so you pay half the difference in materials (13,750 gp is the difference, so 6,875 gp materials cost), one twenty-fifth the difference in XP (550 xp), and you take a number of eight-hour days equal to the market price difference over 1,000 (round up, so 14 days). If you're hiring someone else to do it, you pay the market price difference (13,750 gp) and wait the 14 days.

What if the enhancement bonus was not the same as the one specified?

Well, this depends somewhat on what you mean.

Taking the example of the Luck Blade again...

If you use a +1 Short Sword instead of a +2 Short Sword, no problem - you're just using a different base cost item when you're upgrading, so the math comes out a little different.

If you use a +3 Short Sword instead of a +2 Short Sword, you've got the issue that you're in "rules not explicit" territory - as far as I know, there's no rules for downgrading an item - so the answer is "ask your DM", as there is no RAW answer (that I know of - at least, baring specific things, such as the Artificer's Retain Essence class feature).

Secondarily, on the cost of creating an item with a special material: How would the cost be affected if I provided all the material necessary? I would assume there are still costs applicable for labor.

Well, per the Craft Skill, materials are 1/3 of the market price of the item - so if you have, the materials suitable for making an adamantine greatsword, hiring someone to do it for you at market price would still cost you a little over 2,000 gp (3,050 gp * 2/3 = 2,033.3333.... gp, specifically, but who cares, really?)... and you'll need to wait a rather long time for it to be completed, with the way Craft skills work. If you hire a suitably skilled Wizard to cast Fabricate for you, at minimum caster level, you just have to pay the 450 gp.

 

[Greenfield]

I think I understand the questions.

Raw materials cost for a magic item is half the market price. They don't price the labor if you're making it yourself. If you're paying someone else, it's the other half of the market price.

Raw materials cost a third of market price for non-magical items, if you're making it yourself. If you're buying it, the labor, obviously, is the other two thirds.

Oddly, this implies that the exotic skills, feats, magical talent and spent EXP are less valuable, proportionally, than mundane craftsmanship.

Master work bonus is pure labor, by the way.

As far as upgrading an item, that's been explained.

Upgrading to a "named" item, such as a Luck Blade, works the same way. And if you aren't producing something that's exactly like the Luck Blade, say you want it to be +3 instead of +2? Same rules apply, really.

 

[Hassassin]

I think I understand the questions.

Raw materials cost for a magic item is half the market price. They don't price the labor if you're making it yourself. If you're paying someone else, it's the other half of the market price.

Raw materials cost a third of market price for non-magical items, if you're making it yourself. If you're buying it, the labor, obviously, is the other two thirds.

Yes, this should answer the questions. "Special materials" like mithral or dragonhide fall under the second point.

Oddly, this implies that the exotic skills, feats, magical talent and spent EXP are less valuable, proportionally, than mundane craftsmanship.

Yes, but I think it has more to do with time. Crafting mundane items takes something like 1 week / 10-100 gp. Crafting magic items usually takes 1 day / 1000 gp. That's a difference of 2-3 orders of magnitude.

Master work bonus is pure labor, by the way.

No, it's the same 1/3 materials:

Note: The cost you pay for the masterwork component is one-third of the given amount, just as it is for the cost in raw materials.

 

[Hassassin]

If you hire a suitably skilled Wizard to cast Fabricate for you, at minimum caster level, you just have to pay the 450 gp.

Suitably skilled also means one with a large enough craft modifier relating to the task.

Edit: A "normal" 9th level wizard with 15 Int and no ranks would have +2 craft, so she would succeed in the DC 20 craft check (adamantine items are masterwork, so at least DC 20) 10% of the time. Casting the spell the average of 10 times to succeed on the check would cost 4500 gp. That's actually a fairly decent time/price tradeoff.

 

[Jack Simth]

Suitably skilled also means one with a large enough craft modifier relating to the task.

Edit: A "normal" 9th level wizard with 15 Int and no ranks would have +2 craft, so she would succeed in the DC 20 craft check (adamantine items are masterwork, so at least DC 20) 10% of the time. Casting the spell the average of 10 times to succeed on the check would cost 4500 gp. That's actually a fairly decent time/price tradeoff.

Base Int 15 for NPC wizards. They still get their level up boosts, so 17. But yeah, you'll need to find one that actually spent ranks on Craft for whatever item you're looking for... or you'll need to find a way to boost the caster's check. A Cleric-9 with the Artifice domain is really your best bet - Divine Insight (Cleric-2) + Fabricate (Artifice-5).

 

[Herzog]

For mundane items, the RAW manufacturing time is based on the market price. (for details, see the Craft skill description).

However, as a houserule I allow the following:
The manufacturing time is based on the difference between raw matials and the market price. (standard, you 'craft' 2/3 when providing the standard 1/3 raw materials.)
If you buy half-fabricates (already constructed plates and leather strips for a to be constructed scale mail for example) with a total cost of 9/10th of the endproduct, your crafting time would be based on 1/10th the market price.

This, IMO, allows for characters investing in the crafting skill to actually get some use out of it (like armorfitting, repairing ruined items, and creating 'custom' items)

As a sidenote: Requiring Wizards with fabricate for your mundane item crafting is, IMO, one of the silly side effects of the way WotC wrote the Craft skill.

 

[Xakk]

Good answers. To put it more in perspective, I'm shopping to have items crafted for me, not do so myself.

Here are a couple bonus follow up questions:

If a specific item you possessed used a base item that was the same as a different specific item, could you merge the two? It can be done with standard enhancements, but what about specific?

More sanely, if you did possess the raw special materials for crafting an item, would the amount used be equal to the item crafted? A little more to reflect waste? The whole lot, maybe a chunk by size category?