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Crafting Items - Expert Craftsman vs Adventurers
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<blockquote data-quote="Myzzrym" data-source="post: 7595927" data-attributes="member: 6989911"><p>Hey there folks,</p><p></p><p>I have a little issue with how the Skill System works in 5e in regards to Master Craftsman. </p><p></p><p>See, in 3.5 you could pump up a godly amount of skill points into a particular skill, which made sense when you were creating Bob, the capital's most famous smith. However in 5e, all your skills proficiency increase at the same speed - and very slowly on top of that (in fact the difference between a level 1 and a level 20 is... 4 points of proficiency). Furthermore, the bonus is heavily impacted by the stat modifier itself (since the proficiency bonus doesn't go that high).</p><p></p><p>This is good to avoid massive difference between players when it comes to adventuring, but for specialists it's... kind of eh?</p><p></p><p>Here is an example. Let's say I have Timmy, Bob's son, decide that he wanted to become an adventurer. Timmy's proficient in Smithing or whatever equivalent tool exists in 5e because of his past. Timmy's a level 1 Fighter with 18 in Strength because he's buff and ready to smash some goblins.</p><p></p><p>On the other side, I have Bob who's been working the forge his entire life. Let's say for good measures that he's level... 5? That's the equivalent of a regional champion, Bob's a fairly reputed smithy. Now Bob's been working hard at the forge but he doesn't have his son's strength, let's say he's at a very respectable 16 (which is already pretty high for a human, Timmy's just blessed with good genes).</p><p></p><p><strong>Timmy has +2 (Proficiency) + 4 (Str Mod.) = +6 in Smithing </strong>(if I consider that it's a Str-related skill, one could argue but that's beside the point the example would work with any stat).</p><p><strong>Bob has +3 * 2 (Proficiency + Expertise) + 3 (Str Mod.) = +9 in Smithing</strong>.</p><p></p><p><strong>That's... a mere 3 points difference. If they were to throw dices, Bob would have only 15% chances of a better outcome than Timmy</strong>, that dumb ingrate son of his that decided to run into the countryside great sword in hand to slay goblins and throw himself into danger pits, the numbskull. </p><p></p><p>Overall I oriented this discussion with Crafting in mind, but I could extend that to many other topics. A highly trained circus acrobat vs the halfling rogue who... well, just has high dex and expertise in Acrobatics. A wise old doctor who's fought off multiple plagues vs a young cleric rolling medicine checks. You get my gist. </p><p></p><p>So. How do <strong>you</strong> deal with this? Do you just go "eh screw the rules" and decide that good craftsman get godly bonuses in their own craft? (They have EXPERT Expertise) Do you just shrug and say that adventurers, by virtue of their pure awesomeness, are able to compete with poor peons that spent their lives honing their craft? (well they didn't get to get their ass blasted by mindflayers so boohoo screw your hard work)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Myzzrym, post: 7595927, member: 6989911"] Hey there folks, I have a little issue with how the Skill System works in 5e in regards to Master Craftsman. See, in 3.5 you could pump up a godly amount of skill points into a particular skill, which made sense when you were creating Bob, the capital's most famous smith. However in 5e, all your skills proficiency increase at the same speed - and very slowly on top of that (in fact the difference between a level 1 and a level 20 is... 4 points of proficiency). Furthermore, the bonus is heavily impacted by the stat modifier itself (since the proficiency bonus doesn't go that high). This is good to avoid massive difference between players when it comes to adventuring, but for specialists it's... kind of eh? Here is an example. Let's say I have Timmy, Bob's son, decide that he wanted to become an adventurer. Timmy's proficient in Smithing or whatever equivalent tool exists in 5e because of his past. Timmy's a level 1 Fighter with 18 in Strength because he's buff and ready to smash some goblins. On the other side, I have Bob who's been working the forge his entire life. Let's say for good measures that he's level... 5? That's the equivalent of a regional champion, Bob's a fairly reputed smithy. Now Bob's been working hard at the forge but he doesn't have his son's strength, let's say he's at a very respectable 16 (which is already pretty high for a human, Timmy's just blessed with good genes). [B]Timmy has +2 (Proficiency) + 4 (Str Mod.) = +6 in Smithing [/B](if I consider that it's a Str-related skill, one could argue but that's beside the point the example would work with any stat). [B]Bob has +3 * 2 (Proficiency + Expertise) + 3 (Str Mod.) = +9 in Smithing[/B]. [B]That's... a mere 3 points difference. If they were to throw dices, Bob would have only 15% chances of a better outcome than Timmy[/B], that dumb ingrate son of his that decided to run into the countryside great sword in hand to slay goblins and throw himself into danger pits, the numbskull. Overall I oriented this discussion with Crafting in mind, but I could extend that to many other topics. A highly trained circus acrobat vs the halfling rogue who... well, just has high dex and expertise in Acrobatics. A wise old doctor who's fought off multiple plagues vs a young cleric rolling medicine checks. You get my gist. So. How do [B]you[/B] deal with this? Do you just go "eh screw the rules" and decide that good craftsman get godly bonuses in their own craft? (They have EXPERT Expertise) Do you just shrug and say that adventurers, by virtue of their pure awesomeness, are able to compete with poor peons that spent their lives honing their craft? (well they didn't get to get their ass blasted by mindflayers so boohoo screw your hard work) [/QUOTE]
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