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Crafting Items - Expert Craftsman vs Adventurers
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<blockquote data-quote="UngeheuerLich" data-source="post: 7596069" data-attributes="member: 59057"><p>So 3 point difference. Does not sound like a lot. But look at it that way. Crafting an item does not take 1 skill check DC 20, but 20 Checks of DC 10. One each day. While Bob will make every single check Timmy will on average fail 3 checks and will waste materials.</p><p>Or make it DC 15. On a failure you lose material. On a failure of 5 or more you will destroy your work. While Bob will usually not fail by 5 or more - Only on a 1, timmy will fail quite often anf has a considerable chance to fail by 5 or more. Bob will have an apprentice who helps him Bob will only destroy the item on every 400th check on average.</p><p>Timmy will fail every 25th check on average.</p><p></p><p>I noticed the same problem with 3rd edition. Actually it was even more pronounced because if timmy would invest in smithing, at level 10 he will make checks, bob would only dream of.</p><p>Here the same solution applied.</p><p>I reminded players that checks are usually 10, 15 or 20. And an expert level 2 with skill focus and synergy could reach 5+2+3+2 from int. So he could compete with a fighter that only uses a skill point on smithing every other level. </p><p>I reminded my players that a skill where you invest in every level is a field of expertise and if they only invest half a point per level (similar to a cross class skill) it is enough to beat challenges appropriate to that level.</p><p></p><p>As soon as this was established skill points were abundand for every class and the rogue felt special because he was way ahead of most other classes. And experts could compete, even if they were just level 2.</p><p></p><p>Back to 5e. Don't use too high DCs. Make more checks. Remember that a 1 in a check is not an automatic failure. Make checks for proficiencies with different abilities. Maybe Int, Str and Con all play a role. So one check each per day. Use advantage and maybe the optional fail at a cost rule.</p><p>Only problem I see: an expert will never have a proficiency bonus higher than 2 (4 with expertise). If you stat an expert, maybe just give him a background like feature that just allows him to circumvent a check or gives an arbitrary bonus determined by crafter rang.</p><p>Expert smith: hans gets a +5 bonus for practicing smithing for many years. Here it comes in handy that you don't have to build nscs as PCs. If a PC would ask me if he can also become an expert, I'd probably allow it.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="UngeheuerLich, post: 7596069, member: 59057"] So 3 point difference. Does not sound like a lot. But look at it that way. Crafting an item does not take 1 skill check DC 20, but 20 Checks of DC 10. One each day. While Bob will make every single check Timmy will on average fail 3 checks and will waste materials. Or make it DC 15. On a failure you lose material. On a failure of 5 or more you will destroy your work. While Bob will usually not fail by 5 or more - Only on a 1, timmy will fail quite often anf has a considerable chance to fail by 5 or more. Bob will have an apprentice who helps him Bob will only destroy the item on every 400th check on average. Timmy will fail every 25th check on average. I noticed the same problem with 3rd edition. Actually it was even more pronounced because if timmy would invest in smithing, at level 10 he will make checks, bob would only dream of. Here the same solution applied. I reminded players that checks are usually 10, 15 or 20. And an expert level 2 with skill focus and synergy could reach 5+2+3+2 from int. So he could compete with a fighter that only uses a skill point on smithing every other level. I reminded my players that a skill where you invest in every level is a field of expertise and if they only invest half a point per level (similar to a cross class skill) it is enough to beat challenges appropriate to that level. As soon as this was established skill points were abundand for every class and the rogue felt special because he was way ahead of most other classes. And experts could compete, even if they were just level 2. Back to 5e. Don't use too high DCs. Make more checks. Remember that a 1 in a check is not an automatic failure. Make checks for proficiencies with different abilities. Maybe Int, Str and Con all play a role. So one check each per day. Use advantage and maybe the optional fail at a cost rule. Only problem I see: an expert will never have a proficiency bonus higher than 2 (4 with expertise). If you stat an expert, maybe just give him a background like feature that just allows him to circumvent a check or gives an arbitrary bonus determined by crafter rang. Expert smith: hans gets a +5 bonus for practicing smithing for many years. Here it comes in handy that you don't have to build nscs as PCs. If a PC would ask me if he can also become an expert, I'd probably allow it. [/QUOTE]
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