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Crafting Items - Expert Craftsman vs Adventurers
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<blockquote data-quote="77IM" data-source="post: 7596100" data-attributes="member: 12377"><p>Bounded accuracy works by shifting focus from the <em>quantitative</em> success chance to the <em>qualitative</em> outcome of success failure. The problem is that 5E does this really well for combat, but <em>not at all</em> for other types of skill checks.</p><p></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Tim </strong>the archer is a level 1 fighter, so when he hits with a longbow, great, 1d8+3 damage.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Bob</strong>, at level 8, is starting off with +2 attack and +1 damage over Tim. But he also, he has Extra Attack, so he can attack twice as fast (which matters in certain types of archery contests); has Sharpshooter, so he ignores disadvantage for range and cover, and has the option of -5 attack / +10 damage; and is a Battlemaster, so 5 times per day, he can add +1d8 to either attack, or to damage with some fun rider (like knocking the target prone or making them frightened of him).</li> </ul><p></p><p>In that context, I'd say the +2 attack and +1 damage is totally fine.</p><p></p><p>Now, that's how bounded accuracy is supposed to work. The problem is that this stuff is all specified in detail for combat, but is totally neglected for the other pillars of the game.</p><p></p><p>As a thought exercise, here are some things you could use to differentiate blacksmiths:</p><p></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Timmy</strong> the smith has a +6 an can craft 5 gp worth of stuff per day.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Bob</strong> the smith has only +3 more bonus than Tim. But he also has the rogue's Reliable Talent -- if he rolls less than a 10, it counts as a 10. And let's say he's got the crafting equivalent of "Extra Attack" -- he can craft twice as fast, or 10 gp per day. Hell, let's say he's also got the equivalent of "Cunning Action" and can do up to 15 gp per day. And, let's say he never suffers disadvantage for poor tools, materials, or task complexity. I'm even willing to say that Bob knows how to craft magic arms and armor of common or uncommon rarity; he's not a spellcaster himself, but has something akin to Ritual Caster which lets him do this. Finally, if Timmy and Bob are both making passive checks, Bob's modest +3 modifier does let him automatically succeed substantially more often than Timmy.</li> </ul><p></p><p>Yes, I just made up a bunch of rules, but that's kind of my point: bounded accuracy <em>needs</em> more than just the bonus in order to be fun. Differentiate your characters qualitatively, not quantitatively. For NPC stat blocks, this shouldn't be hard.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="77IM, post: 7596100, member: 12377"] Bounded accuracy works by shifting focus from the [I]quantitative[/I] success chance to the [I]qualitative[/I] outcome of success failure. The problem is that 5E does this really well for combat, but [I]not at all[/I] for other types of skill checks. [list][*][B]Tim [/B]the archer is a level 1 fighter, so when he hits with a longbow, great, 1d8+3 damage. [*][B]Bob[/B], at level 8, is starting off with +2 attack and +1 damage over Tim. But he also, he has Extra Attack, so he can attack twice as fast (which matters in certain types of archery contests); has Sharpshooter, so he ignores disadvantage for range and cover, and has the option of -5 attack / +10 damage; and is a Battlemaster, so 5 times per day, he can add +1d8 to either attack, or to damage with some fun rider (like knocking the target prone or making them frightened of him).[/list] In that context, I'd say the +2 attack and +1 damage is totally fine. Now, that's how bounded accuracy is supposed to work. The problem is that this stuff is all specified in detail for combat, but is totally neglected for the other pillars of the game. As a thought exercise, here are some things you could use to differentiate blacksmiths: [list][*][B]Timmy[/B] the smith has a +6 an can craft 5 gp worth of stuff per day. [*][B]Bob[/B] the smith has only +3 more bonus than Tim. But he also has the rogue's Reliable Talent -- if he rolls less than a 10, it counts as a 10. And let's say he's got the crafting equivalent of "Extra Attack" -- he can craft twice as fast, or 10 gp per day. Hell, let's say he's also got the equivalent of "Cunning Action" and can do up to 15 gp per day. And, let's say he never suffers disadvantage for poor tools, materials, or task complexity. I'm even willing to say that Bob knows how to craft magic arms and armor of common or uncommon rarity; he's not a spellcaster himself, but has something akin to Ritual Caster which lets him do this. Finally, if Timmy and Bob are both making passive checks, Bob's modest +3 modifier does let him automatically succeed substantially more often than Timmy.[/list] Yes, I just made up a bunch of rules, but that's kind of my point: bounded accuracy [I]needs[/I] more than just the bonus in order to be fun. Differentiate your characters qualitatively, not quantitatively. For NPC stat blocks, this shouldn't be hard. [/QUOTE]
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