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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Caliban" data-source="post: 7099171" data-attributes="member: 284">Perceived issue.   I don't agree that it is either absolute, or perfect. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> Oh goody.  <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/laugh.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing    :lol:" data-shortname=":lol:" />Ooh, you used a lot of zeros.  That means it MUST be true!Just kidding.  My counterpoint is that your numbers wouldn't really apply to a game of D&D.    In a white room situation with perfect lighting and no environmental factors or situational modifiers, sure.   But that's not D&D.  Dim light, giving disadvantage on perception checks, for a -5 to your passive perception?   Now the passive 20 guy fails 100% of the time, but the actively perceiving guy succeeds at least some of the time.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Some of the hidden creatures aren't just nameless, faceless NPC's, but actual rangers or shadow monks who can cast Pass Without Trace.   Now it's a DC 30 and everyone fails to spot them 100% of the time. It's overcast and raining, with gusts of wind that keep moving the foliage and underbrush unpredictably and making noise.  Disadvantage on spot checks, and advantage on stealth checks.  That's a 10 point swing without any magic involved. Any number of circumstances can give disadvantage on perception checks, or even advantage on stealth, tilting the odds in favor of the hidden.   All that is in the purview of the DM. The DM can even say that passive perception doesn't apply, if they they are in a situation that doesn't seem threatening and the PC's don't specifically say they are being paranoid.  (Harvest festival where they are being celebrated as local heroes, a tavern they've frequented, their own base of operations, etc.) Walking through a goblin warren, expecting trouble?   Yeah, someone with good perception is going to spot trouble nearly 100% of the time, barring exceptionally skilled goblins or magic.   But I don't find that unrealistic at all.  If someone has invested a proficiency, a feat (observation), and/or stat points into making themselves exceptional at perception, then they should be exceptional.</blockquote>

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