Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Crawford on Stealth
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="iserith" data-source="post: 7099197" data-attributes="member: 97077"><p>"Characters who turn their attention to other tasks as the group travels are not focused on watching for danger. These characters don’t contribute their passive Wisdom (Perception) scores to the group’s chance of noticing hidden threats." Basic Rules, page 65.</p><p></p><p>So, you could say "the rules have it always on," except when it's not.</p><p></p><p>(The rest of this post is really for everybody else. No offense, but I've learned not to engage with you too much this deep in a thread as it tends to turn into debates about the definitions of things. I'm not interested in that. I'm interested instead in showing how one can use what Crawford says in the podcast without it causing disruption sufficient for some to want to toss the mechanic entirely.)</p><p></p><p>Which is not to say I agree it's "always on" either in the manner some are lamenting in this thread. In the context of a combat situation, which is what the podcast was chiefly focused on as I recall, it's generally safe in my view to say it's "always on" in the sense that if there's any uncertainty as to whether a creature can hide from another creature, the DM can use the passive check to resolve it. If there's no uncertainty, then there's no need to use the passive check. After all, a passive check is just a special kind of ability check, and an ability check is a mechanic used to get a result when a creature undertakes a task with an uncertain outcome and a meaningful consequence of failure. The task here being "keeping watch for hidden dangers."</p><p></p><p>In an exploration situation, we can't in my view assume what task the players want their characters to pursue, though I bet at most tables it's safe to say they're "keeping watch for hidden dangers" if nothing else. But if the players want to perform some other task instead, something at least as reasonably distracting as the options listed in the rules, then as above, the passive check does not apply. There is no uncertainty as to the outcome of keeping watch for danger while performing a task like tracking - you just fail outright (unless you're a ranger in favored terrain) because you're doing this other thing.</p><p></p><p>What this means, in a practical sense, is that players have to make a meaningful choice with regard to their exploration tasks. Everything's a trade-off. You can't capture all the info with your high passive Perception score - just the stuff you're focused on in your task, if the task has an uncertain outcome. So if you want to be the ambush-spoiler and trap-finder, then you can't also find all the secret doors. (Also, get to the front rank!) If you want to find all the secret doors, forage, track, draw a map, navigate, or undertake a task at least as distracting, you will be surprised if you're ambushed (so maybe don't stand in the front or back rank) unless, again, you're a ranger in favored terrain.</p><p></p><p>Rule this way and you should in my view have no issue with passive Perception being "always on." Because it will only apply to a given task at a time. And that will have to be a choice the players make and why teamwork matters in this team-based game. And we want our players to make meaningful choices during play, right? Not just at character creation or advancement?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="iserith, post: 7099197, member: 97077"] "Characters who turn their attention to other tasks as the group travels are not focused on watching for danger. These characters don’t contribute their passive Wisdom (Perception) scores to the group’s chance of noticing hidden threats." Basic Rules, page 65. So, you could say "the rules have it always on," except when it's not. (The rest of this post is really for everybody else. No offense, but I've learned not to engage with you too much this deep in a thread as it tends to turn into debates about the definitions of things. I'm not interested in that. I'm interested instead in showing how one can use what Crawford says in the podcast without it causing disruption sufficient for some to want to toss the mechanic entirely.) Which is not to say I agree it's "always on" either in the manner some are lamenting in this thread. In the context of a combat situation, which is what the podcast was chiefly focused on as I recall, it's generally safe in my view to say it's "always on" in the sense that if there's any uncertainty as to whether a creature can hide from another creature, the DM can use the passive check to resolve it. If there's no uncertainty, then there's no need to use the passive check. After all, a passive check is just a special kind of ability check, and an ability check is a mechanic used to get a result when a creature undertakes a task with an uncertain outcome and a meaningful consequence of failure. The task here being "keeping watch for hidden dangers." In an exploration situation, we can't in my view assume what task the players want their characters to pursue, though I bet at most tables it's safe to say they're "keeping watch for hidden dangers" if nothing else. But if the players want to perform some other task instead, something at least as reasonably distracting as the options listed in the rules, then as above, the passive check does not apply. There is no uncertainty as to the outcome of keeping watch for danger while performing a task like tracking - you just fail outright (unless you're a ranger in favored terrain) because you're doing this other thing. What this means, in a practical sense, is that players have to make a meaningful choice with regard to their exploration tasks. Everything's a trade-off. You can't capture all the info with your high passive Perception score - just the stuff you're focused on in your task, if the task has an uncertain outcome. So if you want to be the ambush-spoiler and trap-finder, then you can't also find all the secret doors. (Also, get to the front rank!) If you want to find all the secret doors, forage, track, draw a map, navigate, or undertake a task at least as distracting, you will be surprised if you're ambushed (so maybe don't stand in the front or back rank) unless, again, you're a ranger in favored terrain. Rule this way and you should in my view have no issue with passive Perception being "always on." Because it will only apply to a given task at a time. And that will have to be a choice the players make and why teamwork matters in this team-based game. And we want our players to make meaningful choices during play, right? Not just at character creation or advancement? [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Crawford on Stealth
Top