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Message: <blockquote data-quote="dco" data-source="post: 7101976">Depends, if the players want to make perception rolls for any square or cm of the dungeon that's a very repetitive task.This is also there:"or can be used when the DM wants to secretly determine whether the characters succeed at something without rolling dice".Precisely the only example with passive perception involves a passive check against the stealth roll of some creatures hiding.But my point with the average is another one, if you take a passive skill as the floor for one skill check then it can not be the average:Average of 1d20+ mods is 10 rounded down + mods, precisely the passive skill value.Average of 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10...20 + mods can never be the same value as the passive skill, the passive skill could never be the average of that kind of skill check.The game according at least to the PHB uses the same game conceptions of most RPGs I've ever seen, when there is a doubt the PCs can succed or fail at something there is a check. This can encompass actions that need a lot of thinking or not, sudden memories, task that takes actions, microseconds,minutes, hours, etc. At the end of the day the book offers 3 methods for this check, normal ability checks, passive ability checks and group checks, the book never talks about using 2 or 3 of those checks at the same time for the same challenge.Perhaps I'm misunderstanding but what I think some people are saying is this:A player opens a drawer with a pair of minuscule dots of blood, DC 13 and 16, passive perception is 15 and perception 5. He could see them or not, it needs an ability check, the DM has 3 options for checks, he tells the player to roll perception check and this rolls a 4, supposedly he has failed to see any dot. But according to the podcast he should have seen one, that for me goes against what the book is saying.</blockquote>

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