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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Arial Black" data-source="post: 7107995" data-attributes="member: 6799649">The situation in question is when a rogue (probably) is in combat, un-hidden, decides to take the Hide Action In Combat to become Hidden. He starts off un-hidden!The very section you quoted states that when he tries to do this (change from being 'un-hidden' to 'hidden') he has to make a Stealth check, and since in combat everyone is assumed to be paying attention to their surroundings and especially the creatures in it, then those creatures are looking at him as he tries. Therefore, his hide attempt is a contest between his Stealth and their Perception.As JC made clear, being invisible does not make you hidden. You can't even attempt to hide while observed. The sequence is not visible and un-hidden->hide->turn invisible because you cannot attempt to hide without the invisibility making you un-observed. The sequence is visible and un-hidden->turn invisible (you remain un-hidden)->hide. Since you are not hidden while you are invisible but un-hidden, trying to hide at that point means you are trying to change fron 'un-hidden' to 'hidden'. If the opposed Stealth/Perception check is tied then the situation remains un-changed, meaning that you remain un-hidden.   If you were already hidden then you wouldn't be trying to hide!Actually, it's widely acknowledged that the Stealth check sets the DC for the Perception check. But it turns out that this is a holdover from previous editions and is not part of 5E; neither is it the other way round. The normal 5E rules for tied contests (situation remains unchanged) is the only rule that applies. Neither skill has precedence over the other.</blockquote>

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