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General Tabletop Discussion
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition (A5E)
Crazy fighter idea: Maneuver Specialization exertion cost reduction minimum 0
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<blockquote data-quote="Doskious" data-source="post: 8490868" data-attributes="member: 86490"><p>It might be better to increase the amount of exertion a Fighter can recoup by taking a minute outside of combat and burning a hit die. RAW, that's 1d4 per spent hit die (taking 1 minute per spent die). The utility curve for changing that to 1d6 for the Fighter (perhaps at 4th level?) may provide the desired flexibility in the expenditure of exertion for the Fighter. (I can actually see this being scaled along the lines of expertise die scaling at every level that a Fighter gains an extra point of exertion from the Reserves ability, and it would seem to me to fit in nicely with the general feeling I have about the Fighter class in A5E.)</p><p></p><p>The way I see it, Adepts get more exertion specifically because of their unarmed focus in their training, that's kind of their thing (also, several of their Adept-only abilities, like Flurry of Blows, consume exertion, so giving them a larger base pool -- beyond a certain level -- seems reasonable), and therefore have more staying power in the context of a single fight. Fighters, though, seem like more the class to focus on their resilience of recovery after a draining bout.</p><p></p><p>The Duelist archetype actually does get an ability that, [CHA modifier] times per long rest, allows them to reduce a combat maneuver's exertion by 1 (minimum 0) as long as it's from a specific list of Combat Traditions. This, to me, is strong evidence that any ability to execute build-variable combat maneuvers for 0 exertion needs to be similarly limited, as [USER=6978363]@Anselm[/USER] recommended.</p><p></p><p>Another point in favor of this perspective is the fact that apart from the Duelist ability, the only other instances where the existing rules provide for the ability to execute combat maneuvers with no exertion cost are almost all feats (for which the character must give up an ASI and, for some, must satisfy other prerequisites). Combat Thievery, Deadeye, Fear Breaker, Guarded Warrior, Monster Hunter, Mounted Warrior, Natural Warrior, Spellbreaker, Swift Combatant, and Vengeful Protector all grant access to specific combat maneuvers and specify that "you ... do not have to spend exertion to activate [each of them]". (Note that the specification does not nail these maneuvers at 0 exertion, or anything like that, meaning that one could still spend exertion as normal to use the maneuvers -- this is relevant when considering certain other maneuvers like Wounded Animal Gambit.)</p><p></p><p>The only other allowances in the rules that provides a character the ability to use a combat maneuver without spending exertion (that I can find in the v2 AG) as a blanket, all-the-time option, are the 9th level Ranger ability Flash of Steel and the 15th level Warden (Ranger-archetype) ability, Riding Out.</p><p></p><p>The combat maneuvers that the above features provide access to are clearly a curated list. The feats almost always also provide some other benefit, so I'm not advancing the hard notion that "the ability to use a combat maneuver at no exertion cost is Feat-level powerful" as that's not a clear conclusion from the manner in which the ability to do so in those instances where it's possible is gained. I do think that access to an ability to interact with no-exertion-cost combat maneuvers in the manner of the Duelist (in an ad-hoc, on-demand fashion) is something that deserves its own feat to obtain, though.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Doskious, post: 8490868, member: 86490"] It might be better to increase the amount of exertion a Fighter can recoup by taking a minute outside of combat and burning a hit die. RAW, that's 1d4 per spent hit die (taking 1 minute per spent die). The utility curve for changing that to 1d6 for the Fighter (perhaps at 4th level?) may provide the desired flexibility in the expenditure of exertion for the Fighter. (I can actually see this being scaled along the lines of expertise die scaling at every level that a Fighter gains an extra point of exertion from the Reserves ability, and it would seem to me to fit in nicely with the general feeling I have about the Fighter class in A5E.) The way I see it, Adepts get more exertion specifically because of their unarmed focus in their training, that's kind of their thing (also, several of their Adept-only abilities, like Flurry of Blows, consume exertion, so giving them a larger base pool -- beyond a certain level -- seems reasonable), and therefore have more staying power in the context of a single fight. Fighters, though, seem like more the class to focus on their resilience of recovery after a draining bout. The Duelist archetype actually does get an ability that, [CHA modifier] times per long rest, allows them to reduce a combat maneuver's exertion by 1 (minimum 0) as long as it's from a specific list of Combat Traditions. This, to me, is strong evidence that any ability to execute build-variable combat maneuvers for 0 exertion needs to be similarly limited, as [USER=6978363]@Anselm[/USER] recommended. Another point in favor of this perspective is the fact that apart from the Duelist ability, the only other instances where the existing rules provide for the ability to execute combat maneuvers with no exertion cost are almost all feats (for which the character must give up an ASI and, for some, must satisfy other prerequisites). Combat Thievery, Deadeye, Fear Breaker, Guarded Warrior, Monster Hunter, Mounted Warrior, Natural Warrior, Spellbreaker, Swift Combatant, and Vengeful Protector all grant access to specific combat maneuvers and specify that "you ... do not have to spend exertion to activate [each of them]". (Note that the specification does not nail these maneuvers at 0 exertion, or anything like that, meaning that one could still spend exertion as normal to use the maneuvers -- this is relevant when considering certain other maneuvers like Wounded Animal Gambit.) The only other allowances in the rules that provides a character the ability to use a combat maneuver without spending exertion (that I can find in the v2 AG) as a blanket, all-the-time option, are the 9th level Ranger ability Flash of Steel and the 15th level Warden (Ranger-archetype) ability, Riding Out. The combat maneuvers that the above features provide access to are clearly a curated list. The feats almost always also provide some other benefit, so I'm not advancing the hard notion that "the ability to use a combat maneuver at no exertion cost is Feat-level powerful" as that's not a clear conclusion from the manner in which the ability to do so in those instances where it's possible is gained. I do think that access to an ability to interact with no-exertion-cost combat maneuvers in the manner of the Duelist (in an ad-hoc, on-demand fashion) is something that deserves its own feat to obtain, though. [/QUOTE]
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Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition (A5E)
Crazy fighter idea: Maneuver Specialization exertion cost reduction minimum 0
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