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Crazy Idea: Using the Disease Track for Skill Challenges
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<blockquote data-quote="DanmarLOK" data-source="post: 4409844" data-attributes="member: 71480"><p>This does have a certain elegance and flow. I do have a series of thoughts:</p><p></p><p>How many people have to 'actively' participate and how many can Aid Other?</p><p></p><p>How does one 'dig out of a hole'? I think someone else mentioned this. If the first three people fail, the last two people can't really recover, the best they can do is a partial failure. Perhaps that is though realistic if the dwarf insults the king and pisses off the viceroy, it's unlikely the party is going to be able to convince him to not throw them in the dungeon much less give them support in their quest. </p><p></p><p>So there should be some mechanism for 'pulling victory from the jaws of defeat". </p><p></p><p>Thinking off the top of my head. </p><p></p><p>To create the skill challenge, define the possible outcome steps, They don't have to be balanced, there could be more steps to complete failure than complete victory, that's an inherent way to make it tougher or easier. Or there are simply more steps that equate to the same thing. Fewer steps to victory could mean easier challenge.</p><p></p><p>Example: Total Failure | Partial Failure 2 | Partial Failure 1 | No Change | Partial Success 1 | Partial Success 1 | Total Success</p><p></p><p>Both partial successes have the same results but the two partial failures have different results. </p><p></p><p>Define the number of 'rounds' the skill challenge can be allowed to take.</p><p></p><p>Define the ranges for sustain and success. Perhaps just use the 'recommended' DC's there for success and subtract 5 for sustain level? i.e. DC 20 for success, DC 15 for sustain, anything else is failure. </p><p></p><p>Allow last ditch effort round to avoid total failure, DC's go up by 5.</p><p></p><p>Critical fail (natural 1) or success (natural 20) moves the marker on the scale two spaces. Or maybe Critical Success counts as three steps foward which gives us room to have a Major Success which is success DC +5 to move it two spaces. We do tend to want our players to succeed don't we rather than fail?</p><p></p><p>Define the type of skillsets, physical, mental, social, that determines the primary skills usable for the challenge (idea straight from Obsidian). </p><p></p><p>How many 'Aid Others' are allowed during the challenge? Perhaps define Primary skills which are normal DC rolls and Secondary skills which can be used as Aid Other which are also made at the normal DC but are used to add +2 to others rolls. And a Major Success on Aid Other grants +4 on the Aid Other roll. </p><p></p><p>What about Action Point? Perhaps spend an action point to turn a failure into a sustain roll? </p><p></p><p>Taking a recent sample question on Chase Scene from the gleemax forums:</p><p></p><p><strong>The Chase Sequence:</strong> </p><p></p><p>Party has gotten in over its head and needs to run away. The setting is an orc warcamp set in rolling hills and forests. They attempt to break off combat and run away. </p><p></p><p><em>This we determine is a primarily physical skill challenge but with mental or specific knowledge skills helpful. Because the entire party is trying to run away we decide that only one aid other can be done per round, one character spots a way to gain some ground, or knows to use rocky gound, or figures out a way to mislead the pursuit or whatever. The rest of it is going to be a lot of running, sneaking, climbing etc. </em></p><p></p><p>Duration: The challenge lasts two rounds. </p><p>Participation: One player may use Secondary Skills per round to Aid Other. All others must use Primary Skills.</p><p></p><p>Primary Skills: Acrobatics, Athletics, Endurance, Stealth</p><p>Secondary Skills: Dungeoneering, Nature, Perception, Insight</p><p></p><p>The DC to sustain is 15, success is 20, major success is 25.</p><p></p><p><strong>Possible Outcomes: </strong></p><p></p><p></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Complete Failure:</strong> They can't disengage and opponents get surprise round and combat advantage against them and have simply moved the fight a quarter mile down the road.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Partial Failure: </strong> They disengage but run into another danger (tribe of goblins).</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Partial Failure:</strong> They disengage but the orcs catch them, roll for surprise. The orcs though come at them in waves rather than all at once.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Neutral:</strong> Must complete another round of combat before they can attempt again.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Partial Success:</strong> They disengage and run into a source of help, friendly border patrol, passing rangers on their way to a bow convention, whatever and must still fight the orcs.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Partial Success:</strong> They disengage but are now lost in the woods.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Total Success: </strong>They've slipped their pursuit and know where the orcs are and their relative numbers and can plan accordingly. They could escape the area completely, or set up an ambush for a small search party or something similar per the DM's discretion.</li> </ul><p></p><p>Thoughts? Frankly at first glance, without doing the math, its easy to understand, it has ebb and flow, two steps forward, one step back etc., it lets everyone participate and should generally have enough skills that everyone can primary skill it or the worst one could secondary skill someone else up or it could be opened to allow two aid others. </p><p></p><p>It has a way to 'dig out' by rolling major or critical successes. They can buy their way out of failure by spending Action Points if they have them to make it not purely random but a minor tactical decision. </p><p></p><p>It can have a definite time limit or it can be open ended and only a total failure or victory will finish the challenge.</p><p></p><p>You could make one leg longer than the other so there are more failure options or victory options and adjust the difficulty that way as well. </p><p></p><p>It has easy ways to have partial success or failures and you could make two or more of either side be the same. As in either (or any) of the partial failures has the same result. </p><p></p><p>D</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="DanmarLOK, post: 4409844, member: 71480"] This does have a certain elegance and flow. I do have a series of thoughts: How many people have to 'actively' participate and how many can Aid Other? How does one 'dig out of a hole'? I think someone else mentioned this. If the first three people fail, the last two people can't really recover, the best they can do is a partial failure. Perhaps that is though realistic if the dwarf insults the king and pisses off the viceroy, it's unlikely the party is going to be able to convince him to not throw them in the dungeon much less give them support in their quest. So there should be some mechanism for 'pulling victory from the jaws of defeat". Thinking off the top of my head. To create the skill challenge, define the possible outcome steps, They don't have to be balanced, there could be more steps to complete failure than complete victory, that's an inherent way to make it tougher or easier. Or there are simply more steps that equate to the same thing. Fewer steps to victory could mean easier challenge. Example: Total Failure | Partial Failure 2 | Partial Failure 1 | No Change | Partial Success 1 | Partial Success 1 | Total Success Both partial successes have the same results but the two partial failures have different results. Define the number of 'rounds' the skill challenge can be allowed to take. Define the ranges for sustain and success. Perhaps just use the 'recommended' DC's there for success and subtract 5 for sustain level? i.e. DC 20 for success, DC 15 for sustain, anything else is failure. Allow last ditch effort round to avoid total failure, DC's go up by 5. Critical fail (natural 1) or success (natural 20) moves the marker on the scale two spaces. Or maybe Critical Success counts as three steps foward which gives us room to have a Major Success which is success DC +5 to move it two spaces. We do tend to want our players to succeed don't we rather than fail? Define the type of skillsets, physical, mental, social, that determines the primary skills usable for the challenge (idea straight from Obsidian). How many 'Aid Others' are allowed during the challenge? Perhaps define Primary skills which are normal DC rolls and Secondary skills which can be used as Aid Other which are also made at the normal DC but are used to add +2 to others rolls. And a Major Success on Aid Other grants +4 on the Aid Other roll. What about Action Point? Perhaps spend an action point to turn a failure into a sustain roll? Taking a recent sample question on Chase Scene from the gleemax forums: [B]The Chase Sequence:[/B] Party has gotten in over its head and needs to run away. The setting is an orc warcamp set in rolling hills and forests. They attempt to break off combat and run away. [I]This we determine is a primarily physical skill challenge but with mental or specific knowledge skills helpful. Because the entire party is trying to run away we decide that only one aid other can be done per round, one character spots a way to gain some ground, or knows to use rocky gound, or figures out a way to mislead the pursuit or whatever. The rest of it is going to be a lot of running, sneaking, climbing etc. [/I] Duration: The challenge lasts two rounds. Participation: One player may use Secondary Skills per round to Aid Other. All others must use Primary Skills. Primary Skills: Acrobatics, Athletics, Endurance, Stealth Secondary Skills: Dungeoneering, Nature, Perception, Insight The DC to sustain is 15, success is 20, major success is 25. [B]Possible Outcomes: [/B] [LIST] [*][B]Complete Failure:[/B] They can't disengage and opponents get surprise round and combat advantage against them and have simply moved the fight a quarter mile down the road. [*][B]Partial Failure: [/B] They disengage but run into another danger (tribe of goblins). [*][B]Partial Failure:[/B] They disengage but the orcs catch them, roll for surprise. The orcs though come at them in waves rather than all at once. [*][B]Neutral:[/B] Must complete another round of combat before they can attempt again. [*][B]Partial Success:[/B] They disengage and run into a source of help, friendly border patrol, passing rangers on their way to a bow convention, whatever and must still fight the orcs. [*][B]Partial Success:[/B] They disengage but are now lost in the woods. [*][B]Total Success: [/B]They've slipped their pursuit and know where the orcs are and their relative numbers and can plan accordingly. They could escape the area completely, or set up an ambush for a small search party or something similar per the DM's discretion. [/LIST] Thoughts? Frankly at first glance, without doing the math, its easy to understand, it has ebb and flow, two steps forward, one step back etc., it lets everyone participate and should generally have enough skills that everyone can primary skill it or the worst one could secondary skill someone else up or it could be opened to allow two aid others. It has a way to 'dig out' by rolling major or critical successes. They can buy their way out of failure by spending Action Points if they have them to make it not purely random but a minor tactical decision. It can have a definite time limit or it can be open ended and only a total failure or victory will finish the challenge. You could make one leg longer than the other so there are more failure options or victory options and adjust the difficulty that way as well. It has easy ways to have partial success or failures and you could make two or more of either side be the same. As in either (or any) of the partial failures has the same result. D [/QUOTE]
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