"Create Undead" from non-humanoid corpse?

[BogusMagus]

Can you use Create Undead spell on non-humanoid type creature's corpse?

Would type/shape of the corpse matter? (Kuo-toa? Ogre? Wolf?)

If possible,
would the stats be different from "humanoid" undead?

 

[Silveras]

As written, the answer is probably No. None of the monsters mentioned in the Create Undead or Create Greater Undead spells have Template versions in the MM.

Of the templates that ARE in the MM, Ghost, Skeleton, and Zombie can be used with some non-humanoid creatures.

So doing non-Humanoids puts you in the area of house rules or non-Core products.

Monte Cook had Template versions of Ghouls and Ghasts on his web site. There is at least one version of the Wight as a Template, though I cannot recall where I have seen it. There is probably a Template version of the Mummy, as well, out there somewhere.

 

[Scion]

it says, 'one corpse', so it should come back as whatever type you are trying for. stats probably shouldnt be any different.

 

[nameless]

Savage Species has templates for Mummies, Wights, Shadows, Wraiths, and Spectres. It's not core, but it's not third party, either.

 

[Count Arioch the 28t]

Technically, it says that creatures made with the spectral, umbral, wraith, wight, and mummified template aren't the same as the creatures created with the create undead spells, butI like to, well, forget that rule exists, and let them. I can understand them wanting to keep the balance, but really, no one is going to create an undead if they don't think they could control it via a rebuke undead check, or a charm undead spell.

 

[Silveras]

it says, 'one corpse', so it should come back as whatever type you are trying for. stats probably shouldnt be any different.

A reasonable ruling, but because it is not stated anywhere, it would also be reasonable to say you can't do it at all. That's why I said it is in house-rules territory.

 

[Scion]

A reasonable ruling, but because it is not stated anywhere, it would also be reasonable to say you can't do it at all. That's why I said it is in house-rules territory.

SRD:
Create Undead
Necromancy [Evil]
Level: Clr 6, Death 6, Evil 6, Sor/Wiz 6
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 hour
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: One corpse
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No
A much more potent spell than animate dead, this evil spell allows you to create more powerful sorts of undead: ghouls, ghasts, mummies, and mohrgs. The type or types of undead you can create is based on your caster level, as shown on the table below.
Caster Level Undead Created
11th or lower Ghoul
12th–14th Ghast
15th–17th Mummy
18th or higher Mohrg
You may create less powerful undead than your level would allow if you choose. Created undead are not automatically under the control of their animator. If you are capable of commanding undead, you may attempt to command the undead creature as it forms.
This spell must be cast at night.
Material Component: A clay pot filled with grave dirt and another filled with brackish water. The spell must be cast on a dead body. You must place a black onyx gem worth at least 50 gp per HD of the undead to be created into the mouth or eye socket of each corpse. The magic of the spell turns these gems into worthless shells.



It specifically says, 'one corpse' and 'a dead body'. Nothing at all about what sort of creature it had to be beforehand.

Animate dead has the exact same wording, it makes skeletons or zombies based on the creature (as listed in the monstrous manual). Since there is only one listing for those in this spell then they all come out more or less the same. Physical appearences would differ according to the dm, but the stats would be exactly the same.

Anything else is a houserule, the rules here are not ambiguous.

 

[BogusMagus]

Thanks, guys!

Let me see if I got this straight.

a) According to MM, undeads (that's created by the spell) are "made from" humanoids.
There are no such thing as Kuo-toa Ghoul (for instance).
(BTW, ghoul/ghast have "spawning" defined in game terms,
but Morrhg and Mummy has only "description." Is this "rule"?)

a-2) Use template from Savage Species or other source.
But this is House Rule.

b) Spell says "corpse/dead body".
So this is exception and take precedence from MM.
Stats as MM.

I prefer b) except,
I have difficulty imagining "MM stat" Ghoul created from a dead horse, for instance.
What would it look like?
Would it look like M-sized undead horse? (It can't be L-sized, right?)
Would it be M-sized human-shaped body, with a horse head and maybe hooves?
Would it look exactly like "normal" Ghoul?

Would be reasonable to "rule"
any Type, but must be M-sized and basically human-shaped.
or any Type, but will not have an appendage/attack if the corpse doesnot.
(eg. Snake Ghoul = bite only)
Little clanky?

I guess since this would be a house rule anyway,
might as well get Template versions?
(But then I think I should put Max HD or something into the spell.)

"No non-humanoid" would be simpler. but...
I can't decide.
I guess I will sleep on it.

 

[Scion]

I treat it much like reincarnate.

If you cast the spell on a horse then it will come back as, say, a shade.

It will look more or less like every other shade, have the same stats as a shade, and just plain be a shade.

Just like if a elf is reincarnated into a human it is effectively a human now.

At that point there is nothing to worry about

(although I do find it really odd that giants, who look just like a big person, cannot be made into certain types of undead by those undead because they are type giant and not humanoid(giant).. it is all so very strange )