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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Faolyn" data-source="post: 8684224" data-attributes="member: 6915329">You are misunderstanding what I'm talking about. Especially since you basically just repeated what I said. Society is not the same as social behaviors.Society has only barely affected our evolutionary path, and then only in the sense that societies that live in different parts of the world have different adaptations, such as not having lactose intolerance, or sickle cell being found most commonly in sub-Saharan Africans and people descended from them and providing resistance to malaria as a side effect. Quite frankly, humans haven't been in societies long enough to affect evolution.Society is more complex than just a group of social animals. It involves traditions, rituals, common beliefs, and the like--including common beliefs about gender and sexuality. These things are memes, in the original, Dawkin-esque sense of the word, not genes.Evolution, however, doesn't care about gender or sexuality. Nor does it care about traditions, rituals, beliefs, or any other sort of meme. If something is in your DNA, then the only thing evolution "cares" about is whether or it will help you or prevent you from passing that DNA on. Since humans live in groups, neither homosexuality nor being transgender prevent DNA from being passed down, since even if you don't breed, someone related to you can, and the DNA is continued.And socially speaking, how accepted were these men? Were they treated seriously and with respect? Or, because these are comedies you're talking about, were they designed to be laughed at?You may want to look it up. They were something of an outlier, with other Central and South American groups being more open towards homosexuality. A quick source: <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_history_in_Mexico#Pre-Columbian_era" target="_blank">LGBT history in Mexico - Wikipedia</a>Humans are good at organizing and putting labels on things. That's different from welcoming it with open arms.And you're almost there.In your fantasy societies, has there ever been a cishet supremacy? If not, then why are people in your worlds celebrating not being cis or het?Or to put it a different way, in the real world, while cishet supremacy was the norm and homosexuality was merely whispered about by most people, were there ever straight pride parades or hetero-flags?Some people like to say "hey, if there's a Black History Month, why isn't there also a White History Month," and they have to be reminded that every other month is White History Month. There doesn't have to be, because, sadly, white history is still the norm.In a alternate Earth that never oppressed Black people, then there would be no need for a Black History Month because it would be normal to teach the history and achievements of Black Americans as often as white history and achievements are taught. (I admit I have no idea if any other countries celebrate Black History Month or an equivalent with a different oppressed minority.)Likewise, in a world where LGBT+ people were never oppressed, then there would be no reason for a Pride Event because LGBT+ people were never made to feel ashamed.None of this is an answer. Plus, in your second sentence, you could rewrite it as "for many straight men, the female body of their partner is precisely what matters. For other straight men, it is the gender of their partner that is fundamental to ones attraction" and it would be equally true and equally as much of a non-answer.Since I said nothing like that whatsoever, I have no idea what you mean. Are you deliberately misinterpreting what I'm saying, or are you just getting what I wrote, or did I write badly, or what?Also, I think you need to understand the difference between "being proud of something" and "being Proud of something," in the LGBT+ Pride sense of the word. In both the real world and a fantasy world, of course people can be proud of their bodies. But without outside oppression, they would have no reason to be Proud. In a fantasy world that doesn't have a history of LBGT-phobia, they never had to hide themselves in shame or fear. Just like, in the real world, straight people have never had to hide their heterosexuality.A country is also an external sense of identity, as opposed to one's sexuality, which is internal. They are also very different things.</blockquote>

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