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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Forrester" data-source="post: 331521" data-attributes="member: 1279">Interesting, interesting. Not having Con apply to the Hero hit-dice seems a little iffy, though. Ranger said that in the initial version of the Hero, the Hero didn't get Hit Dice at all (or BAB, or saving throw advancement). It's possible that making the PCs *buy* hit dice would help solve the problem . . . but probably not. With the Heightened Constitution Superpower, all d4s essentially turn into d10s with just a nine-point buy of Con (netting a 16th level Hero an extra 48hp). A modification that might work better is not giving the Hero a BAB increase at all, but keeping it as-is otherwise. So the 16th level Hero doesn't have +8BAB naturally -- he has to buy it. That'd be another 24Hero Points. If you took away the advancement to saving throws, that's another 15 Hero Points, and we're only four Hero Points shy of what "it should be". That being said, this is, IMO, too harsh! I doubt there are too many 20th level fighters out there. Maybe a few 1st level Rogues/1st level Barbarians/18th level Fighters. Maybe a few 5th level Fighters/Xth level Fighter-based PrCs. But probably not a ton of straight 20th level fighters. In other words, I think that straight 20th-level fighters are underpowered in most 3E campaigns, relative to other classes at 20th level, and that we probably shouldn't balance the 4th level fighter/16th level Hero against them. I think that if we keep the Hero as-is, but nuke BAB advancement, we'd get close to what it "should be". For one, Ogry would have to pay 12 more Hero Points, making him ECL +7. I think that might be an easier fix than not allowing Constitution to give bonus hp to Hero hit dice. Either way, it loses the easy "A Hero advances as a Commoner with no skill points but 8 Hero Points" description, unfortunately. I wish Morrus or Ranger would show up and let us know what they think <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />. I think Ranger said that he thought that the Hero class was a bit underpowered as-is, but I think this math shows that it may be a *little* overpowered (?).</blockquote>

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