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<blockquote data-quote="CapnZapp" data-source="post: 7832192" data-attributes="member: 12731">My takeaway from your example: give that party just one out of three things: an extra level, feats, or magic items, and they will trounce the balor. Give them all three (which is the way loads and loads of gamers play and have played D&amp;D) and the Balor becomes a joke.Despite a nine (okay, eight) level difference!Not only is this indicative of how pathetic the 5E Monster Manual's high-level support really is, it really highlights the difference to Pathfinder 2.Obviously the math is changed so the party won't stand a chance against a monster nine levels higher, but more importantly Pathfinder gives its Bestiary denizens the tools they need to actually challenge the players and their characters.Sure not even in 5E will a high-level fight play out as in a white room experiment, but it isn't that far off. Far too many level 10-15 monsters are in essence glorified bruisers with no capacity to overcome the hurdles competent PCs set up for them. The Monster Manual comes across as written by a designer that understands the base game (such as &quot;a level 10 fighter has 23 DPR&quot;) but wasn't then informed about the absolutely enormous wealth of special tricks the PHB's various chapters hand out like candy to PCs!In Pathfinder 2, however, the monsters have their pockets full of exactly the same &quot;unfair&quot; tricks that 5E only gives player characters (and then some!!) and just maybe a very select few monsters (and demons aren't among them).In it in this context &quot;Pathfinder 2 offers robust support for monsters in general but high-level encounters in particular&quot; that the apparent complete lack of Solo support stands out as jarring.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="CapnZapp, post: 7832192, member: 12731"] My takeaway from your example: give that party just one out of three things: an extra level, feats, or magic items, and they will trounce the balor. Give them all three (which is the way loads and loads of gamers play and have played D&D) and the Balor becomes a joke. Despite a [I]nine[/I] (okay, eight) level difference! Not only is this indicative of how pathetic the 5E Monster Manual's high-level support really is, it really highlights the difference to Pathfinder 2. Obviously the math is changed so the party won't stand a chance against a monster nine levels higher, but more importantly Pathfinder gives its Bestiary denizens the tools they need to actually challenge the players and their characters. Sure not even in 5E will a high-level fight play out as in a white room experiment, but it isn't that far off. Far too many level 10-15 monsters are in essence glorified bruisers with no capacity to overcome the hurdles competent PCs set up for them. The Monster Manual comes across as written by a designer that understands the base game (such as "a level 10 fighter has 23 DPR") but wasn't then informed about the absolutely enormous wealth of special tricks the PHB's various chapters hand out like candy to PCs! In Pathfinder 2, however, the monsters have their pockets full of exactly the same "unfair" tricks that 5E only gives player characters (and then some!!) and just maybe a very select few monsters (and demons aren't among them). In it in this context "Pathfinder 2 offers robust support for monsters in general but high-level encounters in particular" that the apparent complete lack of Solo support stands out as jarring. [/QUOTE]

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